Slasher on 4/3/2014 at 01:40
Georgia's fault for giving Russia the excuse. The EU found that Georgia's out of proportion response to Ossetia was what invited Russia's out of proportion response to Georgia. Oopsie. :o
I liked this little bit from the news:
"Speaking in Geneva, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov calls on Western partners to put aside geopolitical calculations and think first about the Ukrainian people, Reuters reports."
Inline Image:
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110725132309/thecreatures/images/b/b0/20110128203738!Trollface.pngFigure 1: Sergei Lavrov, Russian Foreign Minister, 2014
icemann on 6/3/2014 at 13:23
Surprised conversation on this topic has gone silent. Been all over the news the past few days.
Hope Russian forces leave Crimea soon, though I MAJORLY doubt it.
Gryzemuis on 6/3/2014 at 20:12
Quote Posted by icemann
Surprised conversation on this topic has gone silent. Been all over the news the past few days.
Probably because the topic is quite complicated.
And I guess most of us don't know much about the situation, except some basic stuff.
Quote:
Hope Russian forces leave Crimea soon, though I MAJORLY doubt it.
Today the parliament and government of the Krim have announced they want to join Russia. They are going to have a referendum to ask their people. Obama has already yelled that a referendum would be illegal. Why ? Tbh I am not sure what to think of this. But in general I like basic democracy. Not the fake game where politicians and rich people play their games and theatre. But the real stuff, where you ask the people directly what they want.
If the people of the Krim in majority (say > 66%) announce that they rather be part of Russia than part of the Ukraine, why would anyone oppose ? Isn't this true democracy ?
WoodsieLady on 6/3/2014 at 20:35
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
Today the parliament and government of the Krim have announced they want to join Russia. They are going to have a referendum to ask their people. Obama has already yelled that a referendum would be illegal. Why ? Tbh I am not sure what to think of this. But in general I like basic democracy. Not the fake game where politicians and rich people play their games and theatre. But the real stuff, where you ask the people directly what they want.
If the people of the Krim in majority (say > 66%) announce that they rather be part of Russia than part of the Ukraine, why would anyone oppose ? Isn't this true democracy ?
The thing is that this referendum was primarily scheduled for the second half of May, along with presidential elections to replace Yanukovych. And the Crimean authorities are just now bringing it forward to March 16. It is only ten days. Ten days is way too short to prepare a referendum even at local scale. This is why I doubt in true democracy there, because it seems like a joke.
People have a right to decide where they wish to belong to, fine. But this is not a way it should be done. Not with Russia grinding its teeth and Russian troops taking control.
icemann on 6/3/2014 at 22:15
Firstly a referendum backed up by tanks and military loyal of the side standing to gain from it is just plain wrong and one sided.
Secondly, based on my (admittedly limited, I only know from what I've read here + read on news sites and seen on tv news) knowledge Russia prior to the uprising stood to gain the entire country, then after it they knew they'd lost their best chance of taking all of it, so rolled in the tanks and troops to take what they could while the country was in chaos. That's how it looks to me.
demagogue on 6/3/2014 at 23:23
A referendum by itself is fine -- Scotland will have one later this year -- but it's a sensitive decision a country & its territory need to make for itself. What it shouldn't be part of is one country simply dumping in soldiers & occupying the territory of another country with impunity and then calling for one while they're still there, watching.
Realpolitik speaking, though, everybody understands Crimea is probably lost for good--Putin can call it a referendum or annexation by occupation or whatever he likes; nobody has illusions--and the priority has turned to keeping Russia out of East Ukraine & stopping a civil war.
And did you watch/read Putin's barely coherent press conference? He hedged on almost everything. It's not clear what they're really thinking.
In the long run, the worry is that Russia is picking up its old imperial habits and every time they send troops into another country with impunity, and the rest of the world lets them get away with it without consequence, they only get bolder for the next time.
WoodsieLady on 6/3/2014 at 23:56
Quote Posted by demagogue
In the long run, the worry is that Russia is picking up its old imperial habits and every time they send troops into another country with impunity, and the rest of the world lets them get away with it without consequence, they only get bolder for the next time.
So I hope the rest of the world understands and they (meaning we, because we're also part of NATO) won't let it happen
icemann on 7/3/2014 at 04:17
Well going by history, they'll let them get away with it another couple of times and then countries take notice and start fighting back. Once that happens its off to World War we go.
For the time being it makes the UN look like a joke. The business in Syria was bad enough.
bukary on 8/3/2014 at 10:29
Well, anschluss of Crimea seems to be sealed and Putin is slowly becoming Hitler lite of the 21st century.
demagogue on 8/3/2014 at 12:03
Since they're so big on referendum these days, lets see them give one for Chechnya & Dagestan while they're at it. Although under their own logic, Moscow doesn't really have a say in whether Chechnya & Dagestan want to break off & be independent. They can just do it alone.
