The Philosophy of Thief?

Snakeskin on 13/10/2007 at 12:38

Yes. But without the "angled" lables, which i strongly dislike. Also in D&D you are only able to choose the extremes, as in chaotic evil, etc.

Ah. So the Wyrm do not currently work as intended?
Then it does not seem that weird, but still you could have told me that before.

I never meant it to be that angled, i said that the majority of players see the character building as the primary fun, and the goal. Thus, getting XP, in any way, and new magic items is the goal with raiding that new cave.
This IS fun, and it is what the D20 system does best. It owes much of it's success to the addictive fun that leveling means.
I also never said that the large player base were immature, i said they were children. As in 13-16 years of age.
That is in no way offensive to those who are not, since i merely meant it as a statement, not an insult.
When roleplayers grow older, they tend to explore new systems, like you and I have. Often finding systems that they like better, and more often than not start to like the "acting" and actual "roleplaying" bit of the game, rather than the gamey side.
I think you can agree with me on this, no?

The next part is also something you interpret totally wrong. I never ever said "the crunchier the better" as you seem to imply. I have played much more advanced rulesets than this one, and i find that a balance is needed between well-covering rules and flowing gameplay.
Too much rules takes away from the gaming experience and also hurs the roleplaying bit of the game.

Good.

Of course we can, i see that it is ahrd to see my intentions with the system from merely scanning through the rules. If you are interested, just pm.

Of course i become frustraded with you complaining on my system in that extremely unconstructive manner. I encourage specific comments and discussions, but i do not like you way of picking on the system in general without explaining why.

Maybe you are just a little blind because of the large number of immature people on internet forums these days.
Note that i actually used the word now, immature.

You have done much for the community no? Also been here a long time. That deserves respect in my world.

Solabusca on 13/10/2007 at 19:58

Fine, then we can chalk it up to a misunderstanding. Perhaps I misread your comments.

PM'd the rest of the message.

Snakeskin on 13/10/2007 at 21:54

You have PM.

Then we can continue our discussion about the elements, my thoughts go like this:

Top [Light]: On it's own, stands for light and illumination. In a person it will have similar effects as "good" in D&D or "samaritan" in my system. It will together with lefe force resemble the living, the plants (leaf), the animals and humans.
It will be associated with healing and helping effects, and will have a negative effect on undead.

Middle [Life force]: On it's own it never exists, since it is a product of the other six elements which allows life to form from nature. It is always used together with other elements, and a different mix of them will ahve different effects.

Lower [Darkness]: Alone it is darkness and night. With the life force it will be the "ego" part of man, the instinct and the self preservation. It will be able to be used against living beings in a negative way and will in nature be able to convert bodies that light has forsaken, as living dead.

Platinumoxicity on 13/10/2007 at 23:25

Inline Image:

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/3376/82289413kx5.png
This is from my mindfields:
Those are the names of The First 7 Children of the Woodsie Lord. The point in the ritual was to call the full power of the Old Elements to the world and return in to the uncivilized ages. The siblings, Luminas, Ades, Afaris, Audreya, Sheva, Pangaea and Viktoria were the overseers of light, shadow, flame, storm, aqua, land and life. The first six became greedy and wanted to use their own elements to oppress the rest of the world and Constantine decided to take away their physical forms leaving only their essence, the sun, the ocean, the mountains etc. The youngest child was the only one that lived by Constantines rules and she was permitted to keep her physical form. Constantine knew that youngest one was the strongest, so he named her Viktoria, because life in always victorious.

Solabusca on 13/10/2007 at 23:39

Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity

I've thought up a plot for my version of the next thief sequel and the story revolves around the so-called "Genesis" of the pagans and I thought this somehow connects to this thread.
I'm sure you remember The Ritual in Thief TDP:

This is from my mindfields:
Those are the names of The First 7 Children of the Woodsie Lord. The point in the ritual was to call the full power of the Old Elements to the world and return in to the uncivilized ages. The siblings, Luminas, Ades, Afaris, Audreya, Sheva, Pangaea and Viktoria were the overseers of light, shadow, flame, storm, aqua, land and life. The first six became greedy and wanted to use their own elements to oppress the rest of the world and Constantine decided to take away their physical forms leaving only their essence, the sun, the ocean, the mountains etc. The youngest child was the only one that lived by Constantines rules and she was permitted to keep her physical form. Constantine knew that youngest one was the strongest, so he named her Viktoria, because life in always victorious.

Interesting assessment. I disagree completely with it, mind you, but interesting.

You can see why I disagree with it if you flip back through this thread and others linked in it.

Personally, I think you're ascribing far too much power to the Woodsie Lord. Unfortunately, I'm also completely boggled by the 'elemental children' bit.

Ah well, so it goes.

.j.

Snakeskin on 14/10/2007 at 00:34

I like that concept, but as sola said, i think you ascribe the trickster too much power.
However i like the idea of different chaotic beings tied to certain elements..

I have changed opinion a little regarding the last element, and think like sola that it would best be named aether, and be a means for the rest of the elements to function.

I think that the ritual was meant to enhance the trickster with more power over the six elements, making it possible for him to fight the "order" of civilization.

Goldmoon Dawn on 14/10/2007 at 01:00

Quote Posted by Solabusca

(remember Comliness, anyone?)

:cheeky: :cheeky:

Goldmoon Dawn on 14/10/2007 at 01:03

Quote Posted by Snakeskin

Well, it is only the grand pappy because the system is easy and appeals to a large crowd.

No, it's because it was first!

Platinumoxicity on 14/10/2007 at 16:31

Quote Posted by Snakeskin

My point was that isn't it odd that Viktoria seems to have been the only powerful elemental being in the command of the Trickster. I thought taht something was missing and the rituals 7 elements fit in my sick thoughts.
Before the age of civilization, the world was just a playground of massive natural forces and chaos. After the trickster gave Viktoria the permission to let life prosper, it led to progress and technology and Constantine wanted the old world back. I don't know about you, but I've always thought that the Trickster was the A and the O and became pissed 'cause Builder was just a little brat dissin' his sh*t.

Snakeskin on 16/10/2007 at 16:07

I Personnaly believe.. uh bad joke :rolleyes:

I think that Trickster is not in the command of Viktoria in any way. They are friends, and associates, as per thief 1. Sure, the Trickter is (was) more powerful, but there is no need to say he is controllign her. She seems to be very independent in T2.

And i do not think that your way of stating the Trickster as a "creator" or ruler is correct. He is obviously much less powerful than that.
He is powerful, but still must obey the rules of the universe. Why else the need for a ritual to make him even more powerful?

However i like the idea of more "viktoria's", that is several powerful chaotic beings, and also i think that when the Trickster died, and the mechanist threat was no more, they should've started trying to topple eachother and become the most powerful chaotic lord.
This would result in them (obviously) not working together, and would allow many plots for RPGing.

However, im not sure that they need to be "elemental". I don't believe that Viktoria was the green incarnate, just that she chose it as her type of magic.

Also, keep in mind that there is (contrary to trickster) no proof that the Builder exists, or exists in a mortal form at all.
He is treated very similar to "god" in catholicism.