The Pros and Cons of Forced Settings and Honoring Author's Intentions - by Galaer
Galaer on 2/1/2021 at 12:52
Mod Note: This discussion was split off from the thread for (
https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151012) The Perdurance FM by Skejven.
Quote Posted by Skejven
Eh, in FMInfo.txt file I said "PLEASE keep the fog on (or if for whatever reason it's turned off, please do turn it on), it's very important part of the mission."
I don't read txt files. Also fog appears only outside, so it's not that important. Also I don't like playing with fog, because for me missions look better without it. That's my personal preference and I don't see any reason to force the other way.
Skejven on 2/1/2021 at 13:18
Quote Posted by Galaer
I don't read txt files. Also fog appears only outside, so it's not that important. Also I don't like playing with fog, because for me missions look better without it. That's my personal preference and I don't see any reason to force the other way.
How do you know the story if you don't read the txt files? Authors often put important information there so I'd suggest you start doing so. Also, the fog is present (and very noticible) in the inside as well and it's not forced, the fm.cfg is just there so that the fog is turned on by default, you can change it from the in-game options.
FireMage on 2/1/2021 at 13:41
Quote Posted by Galaer
Also I don't like playing with fog, because for me missions look better without it. That's my personal preference and I don't see any reason to force the other way.
Have you ever heard of author's aesthetic intentions or immersive details?
Of course, you are free about your settings indeed, but before your own comfort, it's also important to respect the choices of the author if these choices have a purpose for immersion or story telling, else you are refusing an experience and it's imo not very polite toward the author... and not reading the txt is also another lack of respect, especially when you plan to give criticism
Galaer on 2/1/2021 at 14:11
Quote Posted by Skejven
How do you know the story if you don't read the txt files? Authors often put important information there so I'd suggest you start doing so. Also, the fog is present (and very noticible) in the inside as well and it's not forced, the fm.cfg is just there so that the fog is turned on by default, you can change it from the in-game options.
The problem with changing in game settings is that after restarting the whole Thief 2 fog will turn on, because it's presented in fm.cfg. So every time I launch Thief 2 and your mission, I need to disable fog. It's better to just disable fog in fm.cfg. I am person that prefers freedom and I don't like when FM author invade in my preferable settings.
As for not reading txt files. It's not lack of respect, it's just reading txt file just breaks immersion. I want experience story only inside the mission, not outside in form of readme. So if you want to explain story for people like me, just put Garrett's Diary into inventory and then I'm gonna read it. But txt file, no.
FireMage on 2/1/2021 at 14:33
Quote Posted by Galaer
reading txt file just breaks immersion.
Okay, so according to you, reading a txt file just before starting the game breaks some immersion that has not started yet but setting off the fog for a mission using it at full potential ; not just for visual but also as a good gimmeak ; isn't?
I'm sorry but this is not coherant.
How about playing
Endless Rain with rain turned off? Sure it's freedom in your settings but you are actually just ruining the experience by breaking the immersion since you lose all the visual and ends up with something missing in the mission.
Your settings should fit the missions you're playing not just your own taste or you are like the guy who goes in a costume party with no costume. When an author is forcing a setting, it's not for bothering, there is always a good reason.
Galaer on 2/1/2021 at 14:48
Quote Posted by FireMage
How about playing
Endless Rain with rain turned off? Sure it's freedom in your settings but you are actually just ruining the experience by breaking the immersion since you lose all the visual and ends up with something missing in the mission.
I actually play with weather turned on, only fog is disabled. As for why fog is disabled - I tried to play with it turned on long time ago. I played Life of the Party with fog until I entered Angelwatch and noticed that there is still fog. I never saw fog inside building in real life, so it was really weird and so much immersion breaking that I turned it off and never turned on again. And also heaving fog disabled allows you to see great view, for example: in Malazar's Inscruatable Tower in ice fortress, with fog though you can see only fog and that's it. So having fog disabled is much better for me.
As for story - you can learn it from reading your objectives and by what's going in the mission, not just readables.
As for the rest of your comment - I'm not gonna discuss it, because it feels that you are angry right now and you don't care about my opinion in the slightest.
FireMage on 2/1/2021 at 15:42
Oh no, I am not angry at all! Don't worry! ;)
Nah, it's just you don't seem don't understand that there are missions like LotP in which fog is useless and brings nothing new because used wrongly or in a way the fog has no real purpose for atmopshere or beauty, but there are also missions which have been designed to work with fog turned on, and you must have it turned on to enjoy them fully and also avoid breaking them with enemies supposed to surprise you that you've been able to see from far distance without fog or reduce the darkness in a very dark area, making it feel less oppressing, or even cut the accent on wetness with flooded areas, bad days with rainy weather, etc.
This the reason I mentionned "playing Endless Rain with no weather" ; I didn't and never meant you played it without weather ; I meant you will find missions in which weather is important and must be turned on to be appreciated and it's also the same with fog.
Then my point is : The Perdurance is a map designed with fog and which use fog brillantly. It is not using it randomly to hide mistakes on design or just for the sake of using fog, it does have purpose to make the place looking more oppressing, scarier, more claustrophobic plus making the enemies harder to see, forcing you to be more cautious and fear them better. If you play it with no fog, the charm is completely broken and this is the reason the author did the right choice to force the fog so no one could miss the good work with fog.
And this is the reason I am insisting on that point and also the reason I want you to understand there is nothing wrong with the option in fm.cfg that turn the fog on. Nothing more, nothing less! ;)
Finaly, I insist, txt must be read! And not just for story. Sometimes you have information about technical stuff, versions of ND, known bugs, etc. so those are very important and should NEVER be skipped!
Galaer on 2/1/2021 at 16:42
I didn't want to discuss, but since you aren't angry. First of all, all people have different preferences. And also I'm aware you will not understand my opinion. That's all right. For me fog inside buildings breaks immersion, it acts as nuisance (blocks view - I'm traumatized on this point, because I was forced to play Thief 1 without graphic accelerator and I was mostly blind because of that) and also fog in buildings makes them blurry (I saw hideout in Turning of the Leaves with fog and it looked awful for me). I'm aware that fog is bad looking obstacle only for me and not for most of the people.
Right now I scored Aesthetics/Story: 8/10. This score doesn't include txt file and fog. For me playing the mission in the way I like is fun and playing the mission intended, but not fun way for me is less fun. So if you really insist in me playing with fog, have in mind that I will be forced to lower my score by couple of points, because for me this fog will be just a nuisance.
As for technical stuff, I trust that author will mention all bugs in 1st post on forum. There is also another reason of not reading txt file, which I'm sure you will not understand. I enjoy imagining what could be the reason of Garrett appearing in mission area. So for this mission I imagined that Mechanists prepare grand parade (not on the ship, but rather after journey will end) and they are going to show their masks to persuade people to support them. Garrett wants to thwart their plans and also steal some loot from riches. I know, silly, but I like when mission doesn't explain everything, so I can fill rest with my imagination.
skacky on 2/1/2021 at 17:13
How is reading a readme file any different from reading the first post in a mission release thread in terms of "immersion breaking"? Why are you not OK with one but OK with the other? That's some really insane logic.
Galaer on 2/1/2021 at 17:27
Usually when new mission is released, you must visit 1st post to download it.
