jtr7 on 3/7/2009 at 01:42
Quote Posted by mcnils
Shit just happens, and Garrett always was the right man in the wrong moment. In the end he just came to accept it and take it as it comes, with all his cynism and self denial, he finally realized what he is, through what he really does.
You weren't paying attention if you didn't see how the Keepers were there making
sure it happened, literally, by the book.
Namdrol on 3/7/2009 at 08:44
Quote Posted by Namdrol
Keepers should/must play a major role.
But I see it more as a renegade faction led by a charismatic nutter much in the way of the Mechanists.
(could be argued this is similar to Gamall but I'm thinking more human crazy)
What else would bring him from retirement?
But I can not see him being in any new organization let alone the new Keepers!
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
The keepers shouldn't play a major role anymore. They're finished. They have lost their grip of the City, the City is on it's own now and it will find a way to protect itself even without the keepers. What this protecting power is, or whether it's good or bad, we don't know yet.
Garrett should finally be able to go back to his job now that his duties as the true keeper have been completed. He is once again just a criminal, and he doesn't have any allies.
To clarify and expand, the Keeper Organization is gone. And good riddance,they had atrophied and lost all perspective of their role.
But, the people who belonged, the keepers, are still there, lost, lonely, all their certainties gone in one stroke.
And I see potential in this chaos.
And yes the glyph magic has gone,
But are these things not just a focus? Like a magnifying glass with the sun?
A way of channeling an uncomprehendable force.
So maybe amongst these remnants there is still a form of power;
Who hate Garrett beyond all measure.........
nickie on 3/7/2009 at 18:38
Quote Posted by jtr7
. . . No Glyphs, no way to keep the Balance, no Keepers with any means to know what steps to take where or when or why or how. Keepers without Glyphs are no Keepers at all. The hundreds, if not thousands of ex-Keepers in The City are exposed to the world and have to get paying jobs now. Many should be expected to be completely lost in life, depressed, angry, scared . . .
Well it's perfectly obvious that Garrett will need to start some some kind of support group offering therapy, retraining etc. etc. ;)
jtr7 on 3/7/2009 at 19:16
'Shroom tea! And sedatives that they can't conjure up with a Glyph!
Everybody chill! Keepers yerselves nice and quiet and still. I've gotta go steal supplies for the kitchen and pay the taffin' rent for all of you!
-------------------------
Namdrol:
Not only are the Glyphs gone, but everything that told the Keepers what to do, when, where, who, how, why, and dictated every move they made, and told them what was coming--IS GONE!
The Thief Universe is packed full of magic already, that every major faction uses, and many minor factions as well. The Glyphs were unique. They are gone. Carmen Cantata had a crystal ball, or some mysterious way of gaining insight. Dyan had visionings. The Statues in the Mage towers called Garrett by name and told him what was coming. This magic already exists, but the Keepers would now rely on the other factions, and have to influence them directly for the first time, to gain insights, if the factions agree on an alliance.
There IS great potential for a new story, but the Keepers and magic are sundered, so that's not the way to go with this, methinks.
Syndef on 4/7/2009 at 21:56
Well lookie here, now...
TDP centered around the Pagans (magic/nature)
TMA centered around the Hammers/Mechanists (science/technology)
TDS centered around the Keepers (order/balance).
That means that if Thi4f (I'm going by the official working title--please don't kill me...) is going to be any kind of sequel or continuation, it will have to deal with the only other factions left: the Guards and/or the Thieves, and would have an atmosphere of corruption and chaos.
Do you realize what this means, comrades? We'll finally have a Thief game that centers around thieving and nothing else! Nobody but the thieves, the guards, and the City.
It can be with or without Garrett, it can be with or without the Keepers, but whatever game it will be, it will be a Thief game at a height of pure sneakiness and thieviness.
jtr7 on 4/7/2009 at 22:07
Corrupt government, higher taxes funding war machine and martial law, Baron manipulated by secret-enemy-infiltrated City Council, war of independence from the Monarchy, nobility freaking out. Necromancers making a move in the chaos.
The three main factions' Balance makes saving The City possible.
Syndef on 5/7/2009 at 02:19
Hey, that's pretty good.
Oh, how I wish we could land a spot on the development team. It's not like we'll alienate potential gamers with our tastes...
YuSeF on 5/7/2009 at 05:05
I want to be able to see our character do cool things...
negative_len on 5/7/2009 at 07:22
Quote Posted by mcnils
To be honest stories involving a main character that finds out to be "the one" i find to be quite bland and banal in the first place, destiny was eversince a cheap and ancient excuse in storytelling to put a protagonist in harms way.
I'd go one step further, the iconoclast inside me always liked to believe that The Keepers and their writings were just a pile of obscure and broadly generic self-fulfilling prophecies (to give you a better grasp on what i mean, think Nostradamus), dont mistake their foresayings with their records. I enjoy the concepts of duality, bogus and charlatanerie even in a setting where magic concretely exists, it helps me to maintain belief in the verosimilty of the fictional world. Much like in the real one where people still argue about causality or casuality of everything. Religions, philosophies, schools of science, the list goes on.
And just this is part of that fascinates me with Thief, how there is not just one single universal truth conveyed, not even in the narration, at the beginning of every mission we are fed with different dogma (be it Keeper, Hammerite or Pagan). By all means believe what you want, but i dont think The Keepers were right in the first place. Shit just happens, and Garrett always was the right man in the wrong moment. In the end he just came to accept it and take it as it comes, with all his cynism and self denial, he finally realized what he is, through what he really does.
Agreed generally, though in the end whatever he might call himself he's just a rockin' thief who finds himself sorting through the mess in a crazy world to me. I find it sad that of all the excellent plot lines and storytelling in Thief, the only thing anyone talks about is 30 seconds of cliche revelation and implication that I barely even noticed for multiple playthroughs at the end of TDS.
In my hopeful imagination, the full and preferred limits of prophecy are shown in a few lines at the beginning of TDP: "His heart was clouded, and his balance was lost, but his abilities were unmatched. Even then, we knew to watch him most carefully." That's how I like to see it: implication wrapped in prose, and the promise of something that should never be explicitly said. And yes, I feel incredibly nerdy for quoting that.
I still keep with my original idea that the ending of TDS is mostly metaphorical and has no storyline implications. About the Keepers, yes. Garrett and the girl? No. He finds it ironic that he's the one who keeps saving things and
refers to himself as a member of the secret society he just destroyed. He activated an incredibly powerful spell and it branded an image of a key on his hand. So what. Let's begin where it's good: with a blank slate with the best of what happened last time stored away in the corner.
jtr7 on 5/7/2009 at 07:41
:thumb:
Agreed! :D
