theBlackman on 11/9/2008 at 21:21

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Yes: Haunts, spectres and undead can be killed by Holy water arrows, Flashbombs and in the case of Spectres, by sneaking up behind and giving them a full OVERHEAD swing with a sword.

If they don't go down, move in close and keep swinging at the chest or hips. A good overhead, in most cases, will do them in immediately. But multiple hits to the body will also. But you need to keep them off balance so they don't get you.

Flashbombs and Holy water make too much noise for your use at the moment.

If you use the shadows, and TIME the patrol routes, you can sneak through the crypt, but it takes patience.

In the area where you first arrive, you have two spectres to deal with. One walks right up to the hole, then goes back around the corner at the far end to the left.

The other comes up from the left turns and goes down the center passage, turns comes back the then turns right and goes out the end passage again.

Watch them and time the patrol. You need to duck into the center passage behind the one, and kill it before the second one comes back.

Then you need to wait for the other to pass you to the area by the hole, and then nail him.

Get right close behind with a full overhead swing, and then keep beating on them 'til they go up in a cloud of smoke.

EmperorSteele on 12/9/2008 at 07:43

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I just started playing this (taking a time out from beta testing a few things), and having only done Prelude and misison 1 so far... WOW. This is some high-quality stuff! I do have qualms though...

First the objectives...
[spoiler]The objectives needlessly gave away the plot. "Cure Geniveive/other towns people." It would have been nice if this were a HIDDEN objective that only comes to light once you realize the plague CAN be cured.

Also, with Basso, you're not given any indication to go after him unless you happen to stumble into the mechanist tower. Yes, the clues do point to him being there, and i do feel somewhat empowered "unlocking" the objective by going after him myself without prompting... but seeing as you're forced to go there to further the plot ANYWAY (Can't access the first Sister until you enter the Mechanist fort)... well, maybe it should have been an objective from the start?[/spoiler]

Powerups/items:

[spoiler]Now, this is my own fault, but, when i broke into the iron worker's shop and smacked him upside the head, i saw that he had been crafting a sword. "Awesome!" I go to grab it... "OUCH! Ok, it's hot. Oh look, a sink full of water! Maybe if I put the sword in there, it'll cool off and not damage me anymore!"

Took me 15 minutes and 2 reloads to figure out that I was thinking too far ahead and that I should leave the sword alone and just look up stairs. Not my greatest moment.

Incidentally, I also only found the weapon shop at the END of the mission. =(

Powerup placement is generous for some things (water arrows) and fiendish for others (holy water). I found -just enough- Holy H2O to cure Gen and 2 people, but that was it. When i looked through the thread and saw some people had found 7?! I was all like o_O which leads me to...[/spoiler]

The map

[spoiler] First, the whole town is gorgeous! Zombification curse notwithstanding, it looks like a decent enough place to live... except..

It's confusing as fark >_< On one hand, it was very rewarding when I managed to find my way to where i wanted to go... On the other hand? When one has to go from Point A to B back to A then back to B, it'd be nice if the town layout wasn't so confusing and obstructed as to make someone get lost on every single trip!

Sorry if that sounds a bit cranky, but I seriously felt like I wasted an entire hour (out of 3 or 4) just being lost and not knowing how to get from A to B. I don't know if this is brilliant game design or bad game design. I mean, I'm glad I KO'd every single guard instead of trying to clean ghost the mission, but there comes a point when clever design is just lost on some people and it goes from pleasurable to asinine trying to get through the level.

One thing that sticks out: In the church. I kept trying to rope arrow up the bell tower, because I didn't SEE any other wood surfaces. Those three beams that go across the top in the main room? Those looked like metal so I never bothered trying to rope arrow up onto them. I spent a good hour trying to get up into that bell tower, not knowing what the way you had in mind was. In this case, there was only one way to do anything, limiting a player's options, and pretty much nullifying what those options were when one wood texture looks like metal, and the other wood surfaces are almost impossible to get a solid rope arrow shot into.

For those keeping score at home, that's 2 hours i spent -not- playing the mission, just getting frustrated at one thing or another and not being able to proceed.

So, I'm sorry, but as beautiful the architecture is, and as fun as the actual gameplay elements are, and as rich as the plot is turning out so far (I have a baaaad feeling that I'm going to be running into one evil little 7 year old...), when someone spends HALF their time unable to proceed? That's a critical design flaw. One that could have been circumvented with less gates in the city, more ladders in the canals, and a different texture on the beams in the church. That's it. And ok, maybe a more direct route to and from places, but that would involve an entirely new map and is outside the scope of "simple things that could have made Steele's life easier" =)[/spoiler]

Anyway, looking forward to parts 2 and 3, my gripes notwithstanding.

Tolknaz on 12/9/2008 at 14:30

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About getting into the bell tower: I really don't understand what's so hard about getting up from that room with broken ladder. The piece of broken ladder in there was movable. In fact i can name many stunts in this mission that were much harder for me to do even after figuring out exactly what to (clockmaker for example).

Cerebration on 12/9/2008 at 16:44

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I finished this one a while ago and so I thought I'd add my thoughts.

I admit I got stuck at the bell tower as well. However that was one of only three places in the whole campaign that I had problems with. The others were getting out of the catacombs on night one and defeating the air elementals in night three, and that was just caused by me being a bit slow. Considering the size of the mission I think that's pretty good going.

I have to disagree about the level being confusing. There are quite a few city-based FMs now and lots of them have map screens which are beautifully drawn but are very difficult to relate to the actual 3d environment. In contrast, the use of proper street and shop signs in The Seven Sisters allowed me to find my way around the city pretty easily. When I was in the sewers near the beginning of the level I was able to use my map and compass to get a rough idea of which doors led to which building.

Personally I think this mission has one of the best examples of the 'open city' style of play that so many fans crave. This demands that the player is given free reign to explore the location while at the same time having a set of objectives that support an interesting plot. The difficulty with this is that a player can't know which areas the designer is using for the core mission, and when coupled with a confusing or absent in-game map, it often results in a player having to blindly stumble from house to house for fear of missing a vital clue. In The Seven Sisters, the player always has a strategic objective in mind (for example, meet Basso at Dr Knox’s house, go to the Cathedral) and while you can explore and pick up loot along the way, you don't suffer if you choose not to. Contrast this with many otherwise-excellent FMs where your only strategy is to break into every property on the map in the hope that you’ll find a clue to advance the plot. This diminishes any sense of achievement when you finally do put the clues together.

If I can mention some of my stand-out moments from the series:

The little bunches of garlic hanging in people's windows in a bid to fend off the plague.

The note helpfully explaining that a curfew is in effect and anyone walking the streets will be attacked on sight. It's always nice to know why everyone's after Garrett.

The OMG moment when you first enter Maya's apartment and you realise she's not the die-hard Mechanist she claims to be.

On Night 2, I was standing on a bridge near the Mechanist seminary and saw a strange glowing light in a window some way to the north. When I went to check it out I realised that a house had been set on fire, no doubt in an attempt to stop the spread of the plague. Incredible detail!

The beautiful yet strangely sinister classical architecture beyond the portal in Night 3.

Mugsy on 14/9/2008 at 02:41

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For night one, I have met all objectives except healing at least four plagued citizens. (Actually, I could swear that I already reached four...but anyway). Please (a) direct me to the post with the answer, or (b) give me a hint.

I am on "expert" (or highest). I cannot find a way to get to, what I believe to be, the last plagued citizen of which I am aware. He is near the prison (or police station), down near the water, behind bars. There is a long lever next to him. I assume he is in the sewer (#1), but I have not found the key for this door.

Thank you.