fortuni on 29/11/2021 at 03:10
dml's should not be placed in mission zips, mainly due to good practice as some people still use Darkloader, that can mean a dml from one mission may remain in your Thief folder even after uninstalling that mission, and if that happens it will then be loaded with any other mission with the same miss number.
By installing them in the FMsel mission folder your guaranteeing no such cross contamination occurs.
lordhern on 29/11/2021 at 06:04
I wasn't aware that darkloader uses a broken file handling method. Good to know - since I only use FMSEL I won't run into issues with my own local cache. Thanks.
baeuchlein on 30/11/2021 at 20:41
Quote Posted by lordhern
I wasn't aware that darkloader uses a broken file handling method.
The method itself is not broken, AFAIK. But DarkLoader may screw up horribly if something bad or unexpected happens during the FM installation process.
The DarkLoader method was good and needed when there was no NewDark version of "Thief", otherwise FM playing would have been almost impossible. But NewDark has some new abilities that allow FMSel's method of handling FMs, and that method keeps damage away from a game installation even if things go very wrong. That's why FMSel and the other new loaders (NewDarkLoader and AngelLoader) are, technically, a much better choice today, and DarkLoader may go into its well-earned retirement.
Risquit on 10/1/2022 at 20:17
From Post #178
DO NOT BLOW UP ANY DOORS! That can mess up the mission! There is a key to Lord Saturnine's room.
spoiler:
If you've already gotten the keys from Bradey, then go into the Museum and get the Crystal. After you've done that, the door to the servant's quarters, just down the hall from the Musuem door, opens on it's own. Use Bradey's key to get into his room and you'll find Lord Saturnine's room key in there.
Nightwalker, this single clue from almost 20 years ago made my day! Was about ready to give up this FM :/
Hit Deity on 26/1/2023 at 02:06
Retried this one, as I wasn't sure exactly if I had finished it or not in the past.
Still good, but still has issues (ok, I have issues). I'm just not that great a taffer, I guess. The auto-opening door triggered by an objective is just ... weird. But, I failed to put the clues together to tell where to go next.
And that second attic switch.. don't get me started. Yeesh, what a tricky one. I don't see how folks spotted that without help.
The incorrect pickpocket count was still there for me, despite having the v-2 version that's supposed to be fixed. Also, there's 175 loot in the 3rd act, and since Garrett is immobile the entire time, there's no way to get it, so the game's mission stats reports 0 out of 175 loot.
And I could drop the keys again one at a time before having both, so the objective wouldn't tick off. Both keys should be undropable for a quest, but maybe that's just me.
Conversation of MSLedd's narration overlaps Seraphina and Garrett's by quite a few lines still..
Hmmm, am I supposed to be enabling a DML for this mission? Nope. Says it's already enabled (I'm guessing by default?). Weird.
baeuchlein on 26/1/2023 at 07:42
The DML is not present yet in the T2FMDML repository. Unless you manually created and installed the DMLs (oh! the horror!), no DML would usually be present. What makes you think there is a DML fix that becomes active for the mission?
I tried the DMLs in the thread some months back, though, and AFAIK, the conversation overlaps were fixed.
Hit Deity on 26/1/2023 at 14:21
Quote Posted by baeuchlein
The DML is not present yet in the T2FMDML repository. Unless you manually created and installed the DMLs (oh! the horror!), no DML would usually be present. What makes you think there is a DML fix that becomes active for the mission?
I tried the DMLs in the thread some months back, though, and AFAIK, the conversation overlaps were fixed.
The DMLs are listed above so I figured the FM has one. AngelLoader had the tickbox checked to use DML (it's on by default) but all the problems were still present.
I'm not sure what the 'repository' is or how to check if a FM has a DML available, other than opening up the .zip (which I haven't done yet). Glad to learn though.
baeuchlein on 26/1/2023 at 16:48
Usually, these DMLs are first written and tested. Then, they're published here on TTLG.COM just like you see above. Afterwards, the "fingerprint" section is added to the DMLs, but this is not seen here on TTLG.COM anymore. This "fingerprint" section ensures that the DML is only applied to one mission, the one it's written for.
When the next update of T2Fix (for Thief 2) or TFix (for Thief 1) is published, the then-current DMLs (with the "fingerprint" sections) are included in what is called a FMDML or T2FMDML package. That is what I called the "repository" above. If one upgrades his/her Thief 2 installation with T2Fix, then, the new T2FMDML package is put into a directory/folder in the game; in this case, it's MODS\T2FMDML (and its sub-folders) for my Thief 2 installation. Only then are the DMLs found in that T2FMDML package "active".
Before that, the DMLs can only be manually added to a FM by the player. These DMLs should not be put into the T2FMDML folder - as I think you have recently discovered - , because these DMLs would be used for (almost) every FM then and cause havoc. It's like fitting your car with the engine of an airplane - once you try to accelerate, the mess would be great.:ebil:
So far, the best way to use DMLs that are published here but not yet part of T2FMDML seems (!) to be that the player either puts it into the mission's .zip file on his own (and remembers that this changes the mission and will make older savegames incompatible with the DML'd version), or that he/she installs the mission with the appropriate button of his/her favourite FM loader (possibly not including ancient DarkLoader, as there are some reports of DarkLoader not cleaning up afterwards and leaving the DML in the game, which then is applied to other FMs as well...), but then puts the DML into the mission's sub-folder in the FMs folder in the main game folder.
Both approaches mean that the DML should only be used with the mission it was made for. Oh, and if the DML is in the FM folder (and not in the FM zip), but the FM is deinstalled, the DML "vanishes" and would have to be put into the FM folder again when the FM is played next time.
Complicated, yes, although it gets easier once one has done it successfully a few times.
On the other hand, there has been some activity to release another version of T2Fix with the newest DMLs. I am not sure how much progress has been made there, though.
What exactly AngelLoader's DML tickbox does exactly I do not remember at this time. But if the DML is not on your computer and in one of the locations I mentioned above, AngelLoader cannot do anything with the DML. AFAIK, AngelLoader also does not search the internet for DMLs or the T2FMDML package. That's why it could not use the "7th Crystal" DML in your case.
Hit Deity on 26/1/2023 at 20:14
That clears up what I hope are the last few crucial gaps in my DML knowledge. Now I know why it's not working and it makes sense now. Thank you.
baeuchlein on 26/1/2023 at 21:20
Well, that is not yet all there is concerning DMLs. I just had two DMLs (one put into a mission manually and another present in T2FMDML) that somehow interacted with each other, which gave very weird results. Uh oh...:erg:
