june gloom on 8/8/2011 at 17:09
Quote Posted by PigLick
I like koki, even if just a little bit.
Yeah unlike CCCToad he's actually funny. Sometimes.
Warren's Spectre on 8/8/2011 at 17:59
Don't let him hear that though, you'll only encourage his faggotry side.
Koki on 8/8/2011 at 18:08
I don't think the f-word means what you think it means.
And are you for real? I was sure you were a troll. Oh well.
Warren's Spectre on 8/8/2011 at 18:17
Its a bundle of sticks, right?
And are you for real? I was sure you were a troll. Oh well. . .
Sulphur on 8/8/2011 at 18:24
Round of applause, gentlemen! \o/
WS, did anyone ever tell you that's a great forum handle? :D
Yakoob on 8/8/2011 at 18:25
Quote Posted by Koki
Ridiculous? Some twats are already looking for existentialism in it. In a silly little adventure about games from the perspective of the character.
That's ridiculous.
Because a project that isn't a 30 page academic journal with 10 cited sources of other 30 page academic journals cannot be meaningful or serious right?
Go back to you bragging how much better you are than everyone else because a bunch of people who also think they are better than everyone else agreed to print your poorly written, overly verbose, and banal thesis in a fancily-named compendium as a way to attest just how much better than everyone else they are.
Or did you not get published yet? then why I am reading your posts*?
Quote:
And the only way to win Stanley Parable, by the game's own admission, is not to play it at all. So I won that one.
That is not what its about. GG on missing the point.
Quote Posted by Koki
B but none of this is anthing new.
Name ONE thing that HASNT been done before. Yeah, the mod may just state the known, but at least it does it with style and charm many indies, and even professionals, fail to grasp.
And as I said before, you are only describing 1/6th of the game. Go explore the different options and see what you get. Then we'll talk.
Quote Posted by Koki
Hell, so-called artfags jump at pretty much anything hoping to find a DEEP DEEP message in it because playing a game with hidden message makes you a high-brow intellectual conneiseur and not just a dude who plays videogames(the PLEBE). So we end up with Pac Man as a message on consumerism, Total Annihilation that was about transhumanism, the plot twist in Bioshock that was actually a commentary about linearity in games and not
just a fucking plot twist and 28 Weeks Later about war in Iraq.
THat.... is a very
valid point Koki makes. My douchy replies and jabs at you aside, I do agree 99% of the time a message is there because people want it to be there and the man's mind does a kickass job of creating meaning even if there isn't one. That's the reason I never quite got into poetry, I always thought people just exaggarated shit because they wanted it to be there.
So with that being said, I am genuinely curious - what does a game/movie/book have to do to NOT go down the road of just being a stupid forced allegory of something like the examples above (all of which I agree with you on, btw)? I mean, what separates a banal hamfisted message from true deeper meaning, or even Art, in your eyes? Or do you consider all messages in artistic works to be inherently hamfisted (something I have been increasingly starting to feel as well to be perfectly honest).
* warning: long rant may or may not be a product of me working on my master thesis and increasingly loathing the world of academia
Koki on 8/8/2011 at 18:57
Quote Posted by Yakoob
Because a project that isn't a 30 page academic journal with 10 cited sources of other 30 page academic journals cannot be meaningful or serious right?
Is that what they call a strawman argument? I never got that one right
Quote:
That is not what its about.
As a game to be played from A to B, it is. Whatever you do you will end up either a) dead, b) free from one slavery right into another or b) at the beginning again. It can't be "won", so, as the woman tells you, you should just hit Esc and Quit.
Quote:
Yeah, the mod may just state the known, but at least it does it with style and charm
So you basically hold same position as me but still are going to rage all over my carpet? That's quite bizarre.
Quote:
And as I said before, you are only describing 1/6th of the game.
I saw four different endings. I just described only one(so you immediately assumed I only saw one, booo), because, well, I only needed one example to estabilish that post. I guess putting it in allcaps made it come out more humpty dumpty than I'd like since there is nothing really exaggerated or in-your-face about the mod itself. Still, the parables are pretty obvious.
demagogue on 8/8/2011 at 19:09
To answer the question of what people should expect from "real art" ... If you look at actual influential art movements -- the cubists, surrealists, the Harlem renaissance or NY School, bebop, Italian neorealism -- they were professional and disciplined in their medium. They learned the techniques of their medium better than their commercial counterparts, and had a better work ethic, and worked to innovate & perfect the techniques of their medium. It wasn't a matter of whether they took themselves seriously or not; their work was taken seriously because of the work put into it. The gaming & modding culture just isn't that disciplined. It doesn't think of itself in terms of a "school" or "discipline", and it doesn't learn from itself.
Modders may make things that they call "serious" and take themselves seriously, but then they turn in relative shit compared to the commercial games coming out, in the voice acting, the modeling, the style, the writing, most importantly the gameplay, etc. This mod had good voice acting and the writing was okay, but that was really the best it had to offer style-wise... It was a fun mod. Maybe a non-commercial alternative just can never have the resources to get to the level they need to be, but that's what they have to strive for I think if they want to be taken seriously.
Al_B on 8/8/2011 at 22:04
I know very little about art and its history but I have always felt that a large part of it is about expression and inciting particular emotions in those that view it. Most mods and games that are classed as art seem to explore a particular idea in the interactive medium rather than trying to set out a particular style. I would be interested to know if there were similar artistic "flurries" immediately before the movements you mention above.
Quote Posted by Sulphur
This one, the narrator is supposed to be talking to you, directly, but ironically I sorta felt he was only ever talking
at you instead.
I felt that he was talking
about you rather than to you - because that was his role. There are ultimately
only two parties with free will in the game - you as the player and the mod creator(s). The mod, although brief, made me think and was definitely worth the download so thanks to all that recommended it.
Yakoob on 8/8/2011 at 23:06
Fair enough, I admit I was jumping the gun, but only because, as you point out yourself, I got the impression so were you. I take it back; and I'd still be curios to hear your thoughts on my last question:
Quote:
So with that being said, I am genuinely curious - what does a game/movie/book have to do to NOT go down the road of just being a stupid forced allegory of something like the examples above (all of which I agree with you on, btw)? I mean, what separates a banal hamfisted message from true deeper meaning, or even Art, in your eyes? Or do you consider all messages in artistic works to be inherently hamfisted (something I have been increasingly starting to feel as well to be perfectly honest).
