Rope Arrow on 18/8/2013 at 22:13
Well, I'm hoping I can get some assistance from the long-time Thief players here. Having now finished TDP and TMA, as well as just finishing Thief 2X, I am slowly working my way through DS, though it rather fails to grab me. I want I want so start going back through and honing my skills with the original Dark Engine games. But there's one obstacle I keep running into; quicksave.
They are, after all, quite challenging, and have a tendency to kill you and then laugh. For my first playthrough of each game, it quickly became a habit to quicksave in every shadow, and mash the quickload before a guard finished calling me a taffer. Since it was my first time through, I was still learning the ropes, and the game almost seems to expect you to know the layout beforehand, I didn't mind it. But I would always feel a little bad ending a mission without using half the tools I brought, and I have continually run into the idea that the most fun way to play is without the safety net. One of my favorite parts of playing is the sense of vulnerability, and if you die, it's either because the game's physics screwed me over or, much more likely, I made a mistake. The game doesn't usually automatically game-over you for getting caught, and some of my most fun experiences happened when I accidentally quicksaved right as I was making a mistake, and I was forced to find a way to get out of it.
But, I'm not quite so hard-core that I want to start the level over from scratch each and every time I die, especially with the aforementioned wonky physics. The autosave function of modern games tends to be helpful for this, as long as it's not too forgiving, but it seems no Thief game has this. But if I allow myself that latitude, the habit of constant quicksave will be even harder to break. So is there a balance that can be struck? Is there some way to avoid putting on the training wheels without the frustration of having to start over because of a cheap death? Any advice would be appreciated.
Goldmoon Dawn on 18/8/2013 at 23:08
I think the best way to solve this problem would be to quicksave only after you have accomplished a lot and are in a safe place. If things go wrong and you end up dying, it is better to load from a point that was not too far back, as opposed to restarting the whole Mission vs quicksaving at every turn. Ultimately, you will be able to find your own balance. It is also worth keeping in mind that many of us have been playing Thief for so many years, we know every nook and cranny and can still find ourselves in dire straits from time to time. That is one of the beauties of Dark Project/II is the immense amount of replay value that is missing in not only many newer games but games of all time periods.
Vae on 18/8/2013 at 23:08
Quicksave after each objective.
EmperorSteele on 18/8/2013 at 23:21
It kills immersion a bit, but i actually make multiple hard-saves. That way it's rarely an issue to backtrack if I have to =)
Independent Thief on 19/8/2013 at 00:34
I save like crazy-it's always when I think I have things well in hand when I screw up and have to reload.:tsktsk:
Elentari on 19/8/2013 at 00:48
I think Goldmoon nailed it. Only quicksave when you've done something and are in a safe place.
But there's also something to be said for the hard-saves. If you think you're about to do something risky - or something you shouldn't - or before you solve a puzzle that you aren't SURE should be solved this way (or, for me, I sometimes save before going somewhere I'm not positive I can get *back* from. . .) so you have some extra points where if you really screw up with your quicksave, you have something to fall back on, without restarting entirely.
Another place for QS is to use the quicksave before attempting something stupid. IE, I have to make this series of jumps. . .I know I'm not great at it and I'll probably die at least once. I'm safe before the jump. So I'll save. That way, if I slip and fall, I can restart without having to redo the last ten minutes of play, I Just have to redo the last 30 seconds or so. Then of course, I'll make sure I'm safe on the other side, and quicksave again so I don't have to redo that nasty bit of jumping. lol
But yeah, in general, just try to make sure you quicksave AFTER you've accomplished something and when you're in a safe place. Or before and after something particularly risky. Again - only when you're in a safe place.
Astro Zombie on 20/8/2013 at 01:02
Quote Posted by Vae
Quicksave after each objective.
This is what I do as well.
Psychomorph on 20/8/2013 at 01:10
When I played Thief I made saving kind of part of gameplay. No quicksaves, but hard saves and only two slots (one far reaching after an objective, the 2nd rather recent), so saving needed to be well thought about as I would overwrite the existing mostly. I would save only after making some precautions, like only when hidden in the dark, only after checking the area carefully. That was fun.
I can imagine a stealth game, where saving is only possible when hidden in the dark and in a corner, never in the light and the open and not when people are close to you.
DiMarzio on 20/8/2013 at 08:35
I like to save a lot, not only to prevent replaying some parts but also to keep the immersion. It just breaks the immersion if I have to reload and replay, say 10 minutes, with some information about the level layout or what ever, that I didn't have in the first place. I can't feel the feelings of surprise, fear or tension either on the rerun. That's why I save after every successful maneuvre and before trying the next one. Sometimes I even save after I get caught, I hurt myself or something else bad happens, just to force me to solve those problems and fight the temptation to reload. That really forces me to learn and be more careful next time.
Oh, and about QS and Hard-saves.. I always QS and I hard-save only in the end of a gaming session and sometimes I make "back ups" periodically in places, where I know my former mistakes can't make the mission completion impossible. But I rarely have to reload those.
DJ Riff on 20/8/2013 at 10:12
Quote Posted by Rope Arrow
it quickly became a habit to quicksave in every shadow, and mash the quickload before a guard finished calling me a taffer.
If you think you load too often, just unbind the quickload button and load the game from the menu (last slot, "Quicksave" in T1-T2, first slot in Deadly Shadows). Your own laziness will quickly teach you to tolerate such minor things as being called a taffer or losing 1 HP from a fall. Saving in every safe location is pretty normal because moving through the same location, grabbing the same loot, reading the same notes over and over again is nothing but tedious.
