faetal on 10/7/2013 at 23:07
It's weird how the Batman films aren't generally seen as re-boots, just iterative takes on the character. I guess that's reflected in the diversity of different takes on Batman in the comics / graphic novels / cartoons.
Pyrian on 10/7/2013 at 23:31
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
Ok, the explanations make sense - now that they've been explained by someone who clearly gets all of it - however given you raise DC and Marvel comparison, I didn't need the plot or background to be explained with Batman or Avengers and so on, so I go back to the script failing to do it's job for the layperson.
I really think that most people who can't be bothered to pay attention, also can't be bothered to nitpick. If you're not paying attention
and you're going to nitpick, you're going to be able to invent major plot holes for
any movie that dares to have more than a handful of plot points.
Scots Taffer on 11/7/2013 at 00:35
I consider myself a reasonably smart guy and can follow 99% of movies so forgive me if I don't shoulder the blame for not completely following this movie/script because some Superman nerds think it made perfect sense. I'm not "inventing" plot holes, merely stating as a moviegoer where things did not gel for me.
SE, I did follow that there was some discussion about Earth's atmosphere (or the Sun's radiation, or the fact that Kal-el WAS the codex vs these guys being genetically engineered super soldiers) having an effect on Zod and Co, but just like your comment about "somehow they got free of their planet-sized prison" (I too thought that 30 cycles meant a LOT longer than 30 years), I didn't feel it was well enough explained to not feel like the writers were saying "just go with it".
And on that note, I am perfectly happy to "just go with it" in a movie if the rest of the material merits it - but what the hell was the rest of the movie about? There wasn't enough meat to Supes or anyone else to make me care a lot about what was going on.
Here's another gold star plot device moment - we need Lois on the starship. Um, why? They literally do nothing with her except throw her in a room so that she can use the thing that Supes randomly gave her so that she can create a deus ex machina so that they can win the war later.
Seriously guys. I'm not saying it was totally horrible, but it was clearly a mess.
june gloom on 11/7/2013 at 01:40
I really didn't understand why Lois had to come along, myself. That was possibly the one plot point that didn't make sense at all.
Fafhrd on 11/7/2013 at 02:45
Quote Posted by dethtoll
As to the other question... well, I want to ask, why is it that when the Avengers tore the hell out of NYC nobody complained, but as soon as a bunch of Kryptonians do it everyone is up in arms? I know better than to think it's some sort of cultural bias against DC because Marvel has really really played up their mainstream outreach with movies and shit, but it does bug me that Marvel pulls the exact same sort of shit DC does yet Marvel gets a pass while everyone happily bashes DC. (And I'm not just talking about the movies.)
Because in Avengers they show Cap explicitly instructing the police to evacuate civilians, as well as going out of his way to save the large group of civilians cornered in the bank. Also, in the 'laying out the battle plan' bit he says that one of their priorities is containing the Chitauri assault to the handful of city blocks around Stark Tower.
Man of Steel doesn't have Kal-El even acknowledge that civilians are dying until the climactic moment.
Angel Dust on 11/7/2013 at 12:07
Just saw Pacific Rim. Outside of the admittedly awesome (in all senses of the word) monster vs robot action, it really felt like del Toro was holding, or being held, back. His Spanish stuff is obviously great but what I've liked about his American films is that, despite being on bigger budgets and therefore having certain obligations, they still feel loose and relaxed with all kinds of weirdness creeping in around the edges. Pacific Rim on the other hand really isn't that much different from a Roland Emmerich film, albeit one with a lot more technical skill involved.
There was potential in some of the supporting characters (Ron Perlman!) but the massive charisma vacuum at the center, seriously I forgot that guy was in the movie at one point, killed it. I'm quite over this need to always have some bland fucking white dude as the protagonist in these things. Yeah, when it's Superman or whatever I guess you gotta stick with the canon but there is no excuse here. Especially when the characters are RIGHT THERE: I'm a white male, yes, but I could totally get behind a kick-ass Japanese lady or bad-ass English black gentleman as the protagonist.
Nicker on 11/7/2013 at 17:58
Well it's from 2010 but I only saw it yesterday.
(
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1441084/) Snow & Ashes is a refreshing departure and an excellent example of fractured storytelling. The narrative unfolds in what are, initially, unconnected scenes and flashbacks which eventually coalesce.
Ignore the review of the only IMDB user to comment. He was apparently ill prepared.
SubJeff on 12/7/2013 at 00:59
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
I'm not saying it was totally horrible, but it was clearly a mess.
Oh, it was, for sure. I just found it a bit less of a mess than you.
It's a real shame too as this guy was really, really good at being Superman in a way that made sense to me, the visuals were spot on, the score was perfect (I got the soundtrack on Spotify afterwards), which made the atmosphere great (something I value highly - see Oblivion for reference) and all the actors were good - I liked Lois a lot, I thought she worked. The only actor that was a little bit meh was Crowe but then I find him dull as dishwater anyway (apart from in that Jennifer Connelly film with that English guy who plays Chaucer in A Knights Tale).
If it had a better writer it would (could) have been gold.
Scots Taffer on 12/7/2013 at 01:05
Lois was the only character that worked for me, incidentally. Changing her from a damsel in distress to someone who actually has drive, motivation and desires worked for me. The sort of quasi-romantic nature of their relationship felt shoe-horned into the mid/latter point of the movie and would have worked better if only the spark was being witnessed right at the very end when they are going to be co-workers (even if that coda at the Daily Planet itself was totally retarded).
Their take on Superman - the confusing nature of his powers and codex macguffin aside - was also quite interesting. This lost soul who's seeking understanding and is so isolated from humanity. It's actually a good starting point in a journey for someone who then comes to embody the best of humanity and who will stand and fight for them, and ultimately save them. It's a shame that they couldn't pull it off, because at its core it's a very successful reboot of the Superman franchise.
june gloom on 12/7/2013 at 02:06
I actually agree with everything you said. People have this notion of Superman that he's some kind of unerring, infallible symbol of America, when the Superman they get that idea from
no longer exists. The Superman created in 1939 was for all intents and purposes erased from continuity in the mid-80s, and killed off for good in the mid 00s (long story, won't go into it unless someone asks.) The Superman of Man of Steel draws a lot of his influence from the version of Superman created in 1985, who was much more conflicted and made quite a lot of mistakes -- not to mention the whole Death of Superman incident early in the 1990s (the actual fight with Doomsday was lame, the funeral and return were well-written and had major ramifications on Green Lantern as well) proved that he wasn't boring and invincible.
The Golden Age Superman was a fairly simple, kind of right-wing musclehead who didn't think too much about punching out bad guys and chaining planets together, and was rarely faced with actual serious social issues because the Comics Code more or less forbade it. The Modern Age Supes (
http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2013/06/2932470-Superman_kills_01-610x649.jpg) actually did kill a version of Zod and his pals (because they'd slaughtered everyone on their version of Earth and had promised to find a way to Superman's Earth to do the same, not something he wanted to take a chance on) and was so conflicted over it he actually left Earth for a while.
