The Waiting Game... - by GrindR
GrindR on 28/3/2006 at 01:12
As we know there are many moments in Thief where upon careful observation and or/simple patience are required to map a gaurds patrol path or simply wait for your prey to return. You may have run away after alerting gaurds and have to wait in the dark until they resume normal activities and revert back to their less active state.
I havn't encountered too many major waits except for when you misjudge a patrol path and they never return for instance but regardless it got me thinking.
Do you watch and listen intently as each second goes by or do you leave the game running while you (assumbly) stand in the dark and do other things such as check out your inventory or even interact with that long forgotten real world. I know I do, I sometimes start tidying up my room which is in constant need of this activity or pick up my guitar and sturm away or even read nearby material.
System Shock 2 had a gamepig (like a gameboy) which you stored in your inventory and could find games for throughout the game. You could open the gamepig and play it's various simple games to help pass the time while you wait for something to research for instance. You could even hack the thing. It did leave you somewhat vunerable and I do recall an instance of accidently clicking off the gamepig and shooting my shotgun into the wall.:D
What do you guys think of a similar entertainment device for garret to hang onto and pass away those slow shawdowy moments? I'm not suggesting someone actually do it, just wondering what you think of the idea. Obviously it wouldn't be electronic and advanced as a gameboy device but perhaps some sort of timber/metal puzzle game? The one where you have to get the ball bearings into timber holes for instance. Ofcourse it would be an inventory item and thus could be thrown at the wall or tossed into molten lava in frustration if you see fit, either way it could pass some time...;):D
Random_Taffer on 28/3/2006 at 01:28
I usually just sit and watch to make sure I don't die. Usually only takes a maximum of 1-2 minutes...and unless they actually saw you...less.. :erg:
GrindR on 28/3/2006 at 01:32
Quote Posted by Random_Taffer
I usually just sit and watch to make sure I don't die. Usually only takes a maximum of 1-2 minutes...and unless they actually saw you...less.. :erg:
If you can get somewhere far away or out of reach and visibility you often don't have to worry, I will save though incase...
jtbalogh on 28/3/2006 at 02:09
I just wait and think of my next course of action in case the patrol is not what I expected. I do not like to think about real world things because that breaks the immersion for me. If I smoked to pass the time, I try to assume the enemy would see Garrett light up. Gives me a sense of appreciation for how long Garrett's patience lasts. Of course, if I was thinking about Victoria, that is a different thing ... :eww:
Domarius on 28/3/2006 at 04:24
I see waiting as sort of an exploit.
Since EVERYONE, not just guards on patrol, will do the same thing every time, then the simple answer to every situation is just to wait long enough till you've memorised their movement pattern.
If you were faced with a more unpredictable AI, you'd have to base your desicion to move on other cues, such as - they just got the book from the book case, and have sat down and started to read it. The probability of them moving now is a lot less than when they were sitting around all fidgety. I think I'll take this opportunity to sneak across.
But the game can't encompass this, soo... some other, probably arbitrary game mechanic would need to be introduced.
In Thievery UT, when me and my 2 brothers are all thieves playing against a heap of AI guards, we found that the game became a rather easy and tedious task of waiting every single one of them out to blackjack them at the right time.
So, we set a time limit of like 10 to 30 minutes, depending on the size of the level. This may SEEM un-theify, but it actually creates the tense situations of having to base things more on probability than fact, and making quick educated guesses - waaay more fun and exciting :)
GrindR on 28/3/2006 at 04:39
On that Domarius would have it really been that hard for developers to map 2 or 3 patrol paths for a particular gaurd and then set the choice of these paths to random. Could spice things up a bit in regards to learning patrols of some gaurds and then the consequnces of predictiing which route they will take.
I don't think it's possible to do it in Dromed but I think they could have designed that feature into it.
I know random patrols may not make alot of sense in military terms but geese these guys knew garret was often around and should have been more aware that they were being watched and studied.:D I guess guards could have been ordered to undertake random perimater patrols and varying time intervals which would have made some sort of sense.
DarkElf_Mairead on 28/3/2006 at 05:27
I was never patient enough to do that. I run around and when I see a guard I run from then til I get somewhere they can't, like a ladder. Sometimes I have to wait, but I'm not hardly sneaky. I'm like a hyperactive thief.
Uglyhead on 28/3/2006 at 06:25
At times I found myself being too observant, spending such a long time waiting, watching, listening, and planning, it actually made the game a little less fun.
The most fun I had was in the Bonehoard. I didn't know what was what, where, and when, and didn't really have a good way of observing thanks to the small passageways and abundance of torches. I had to cut loose, improvise, guess and hope for the best, and be prepared to run if things got too sticky. It was so much fun!
But for some reason, I couldn't bring myself to do it in human-based levels. Playing pseudo-indiana jones with the burricks and zombies is fine, but that kind of attitude was unacceptable to me when dealing with "human" opponents! Had a master thief reputation to uphold, after all. Not like the zombies were going to tell on me.
henke on 28/3/2006 at 13:38
Quote Posted by GrindR
What do you guys think of a similar entertainment device for garret to hang onto and pass away those slow shawdowy moments?
He should have one of those ping-pong rackets that has a ball attached with a rubber-string.
SlyFoxx on 28/3/2006 at 14:33
A basic DromEd lesson on how patrols work:
Tiny invisible markers (TrolPoints) are placed where you want the AI to go. Eash marker has a number and they are linked "to" and "from" each other in succession. The AI is given the property "does patrol" and is placed very close to one of the TrolPoints and will thus follow that particular group of linked points unless stimulated to do otherwise. AI can be given another property: "does patrol random sequence." The AI will still follow the linked path but in a random fashion.
You would think that you would want just about every AI to patrol in random fashion. Think again, as it would frustrate the player to no end especially if they play as a ghost. Designing a good level is about offering a good challenge. But it's also about empowering the player to succeed but not letting the player realize that that is what is happening! yes, we are manipulating you....muawahhhaa haaaaahahaha!!!! Well planned and regular patrols are the proven method here. The random AI is best used as spice for the meal...not the meat and potatos.
