faetal on 12/5/2015 at 12:25
So glad I moved to France. Not perfect, but at least I don't get to be surrounded by people who saw the last 5 years and thought that it wasn't enough.
Now I just need to get citizenship sorted out, so any forthcoming EU exits don't fuck with my situation.
Tony_Tarantula on 12/5/2015 at 14:46
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Quote Posted by Medlar
Predictions for the next 5 years, I hope I am wrong.
Privatisation of the NHS.
Welfare system irreparably decimated.
Social council housing stock sold at huge discount
Lower taxes for high earners.
Fox hunting legalised.
Membership of the European Union rewritten.
Food banks becoming a permanent fixture.
Constituency boundaries altered to suit Conservative voters.
Renewable energy grants removed.
Best of luck everybody...
If they're anything like American "conservatives" they're full of shit and none of that is actually going to happen, with the exception of Gerrymandering districts.
Maybe legalizing Fox Hunting.
Keep in mind that despite the name of the party the governments will fundamentally act in their own self interests. That means that lower taxes on "high earners" are unlikely for two reasons: the super wealthy already have lobbied and gotten their own tax shelter mechanisms legal, and reducing taxes own the merely wealthy isn't conducive to the self enrichment of government officials (the generous pensions have to come from somewhere).
Same with the grants. Those are typically the result of lobbying and "investing" in political campaigns, not altruism. Consequently they're not going anywhere.
heywood on 12/5/2015 at 14:49
Sad to see the Libs take such a beating year after year in the local elections and now the general. The coalition gave them the most power they ever had, and yet it was also the trigger for a lot of people deserting them for Labour.
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
Conservatives got 10 million votes. That gave them 329 seats.
The UKIP party got 4 million votes. That gave them 1 seat.
A clear sign of a system designed to keep the ones in power in power. In other words: a conservative system. No wonder the conservatives won.
I don't think PR is a good idea at the national level in a large country. I much prefer having smaller districts and electing someone who represents my locality only. When you have a pool of representatives covering a vast province-sized district, individual representatives just aren't as accountable to the voters. It also tilts the balance of power toward the cities. With small districts, you're going to have at least some rural and suburban representatives who put those constituencies first. With super-sized districts in a PR system, every rep in the pool is covering a mix of urban, suburban, and rural constituencies. Which usually means they are only paying attention to the cities.
Anyway, if it wasn't for all those UKIP votes, the Conservatives would have even more seats.
demagogue on 12/5/2015 at 18:08
The Lib Dems are the only party I've ever felt genuine affinity for in the politics of anywhere, if I actually wrote out my leanings and looked for an eqivalent, although possibly pre-split Liberals to be more precise. I'm pragmatic enough to not mind the hedge to the left a bit.
So they say Lib Dems have their equivalent in the US with Democrats, especially post-Clinton, but I don't always see it that way. Dems have some really old school ossified leftist clients that keep them more dogmatic on some issues than I'd like.
Anyway, my direct political DNA was grafted from working under Dick Stewart, who you would know as the original architect of cap & trade emission credits back in the 70s, and generally market mechanisms for regulations. He was the representative of that rarist of birds, the Liberal Republican, which is now all but an an extinct species. It's where I'd probably fit better if it existed, but circumstances are pretty much only leaving me with the Dems as it is.
I think voting in the UK would be easier for me just because the Lib Dems are such a natural home for me. Not that I don't recognize they must have blundered something with the hit they took, eeekk. But I'd probably feel better trying to build them back up than thinking I could really help reform the soul of the US Reps or Dems.
Tony_Tarantula on 12/5/2015 at 18:27
How does everyone else here feel about UKIP? Only thing I'll saw for now is that Farage is a riot to watch speak....especially when he rips into EU officials in a way that nobody else would dare to and you can see the rage on their faces.
nickie on 12/5/2015 at 18:58
Quote Posted by demagogue
So they say Lib Dems have their equivalent in the US with Democrats, especially post-Clinton, but I don't always see it that way.
I expect that, like many people, I'm fairly ignorant as to the nuances of other countries' politics but as far as I can tell, Republicans would be most at home with UKIP or the BNP, and Democrats would be comfortable with Conservatives. My understanding might be highly flawed (it's just from what I read) but I always think of the US as being pretty right wing, in general.
Edit. Of course, I don't think the majority of US TTLG members are anything other than an aberration.
Tony_Tarantula on 12/5/2015 at 22:35
Quite frankly, the European view of American "Republicans" has all of jack shit to do with reality anymore. George Bush style Republicans have morphed into something I'm not even sure what to call.
If you've been following the news they just had a showdown where Obama and the Republicans were partnering to push a trade deal against Democrat party opposition, and previously the Republicans leadership has been known to collaborate with Democrat leadership in order to squash conservative opposition.
More often than not the Republican leaders are on the same page as Democrats in America.
faetal on 13/5/2015 at 10:15
UKIP are a comedy party that have become mildly worrying. They claim to be anti-establishment, but are mostly ex-Conservatives, bank-roleld by hard right Conservative donors and often caught out basically vying for Thatcherist neo-liberalism on steroids. I think PR would be good for the UK. Firstly, having a party which had only 36% of the votes in charge isn't very representative. but also, I think if UKIP actually got some power, shining a light on how they actually do things might make a few people think twice about voting for them again. As it is, they can keep garnering support by claiming to be the party of the underdog.
Tony_Tarantula on 13/5/2015 at 15:29
So what's all the Thatcher-hate about?
I've been told from people who met Thatcher that she was one of the last heads of state that you could actually sit down and have an intelligent debate with.....including Bush who I was told came off as a really nice guy in person and quicker on the uptake than he came off in media, although the person who said this didn't seem to think that his intellect stacked up favorably with the late cold war era heads of state.
For where it's coming from: Minor in political science at the right kind of university and you do run into professors who know these people.
A lot of the old crowd holds 21st century politicians in a special kind of contempt, regarding them as hopelessly stupid and unprincipled compared to the older ones. Part of that rubbed off on me and is a component of why I've got such a negative attitude towards current governments.
Chimpy Chompy on 13/5/2015 at 16:00
The thatcher years saw the end of coal mining and heavy industry, with devastating economic impact on some areas, particularly in the north.
Maybe these changes would have had to happen. Or maybe more could have been done to protect industry, or to ease the pain. I dunno. But it happened on her watch.
