Psych0sis on 9/2/2019 at 22:41

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Ok, by your logic calling the launch of the contest a "failure of epic proportions" and embarrassing was harassment towards the contest organizers because YOU were too impatient to wait like 2 hours.

DirkBogan on 9/2/2019 at 22:46

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To a large extent, the desire to make a Thief-style game with a game engine that allows for to more recent innovations in game design was realised by The Dark Mod, especially the standalone variant.

I am all for minimisation of common design flaws, however I wonder how many of these antiquated aspects are simply inevitable if somebody chooses to make an FM in DromEd using NewDark. This is a very particular set of tools, and a very limited one by modern standards. I don't believe that modern gaming represents a cesspool of mediocrity, but many of the positive innovations that have occurred in the past two decades would be difficult or impossible to implement in the software used to make Thief FMs. DromEd is enough of a headache when just trying to make an unambitious level!

One could argue that this is symptomatic of an insular community who is recalcitrant or hostile to change... if that is a factor, I think it's a minor one. I think the real limitations with making FMs are systemic, i.e. the editing software and game engine. If you accept the premise, "I want to make a mission for Thief 1/2", there's a certain number of old-school restrictions you have to deal with. Those who want to avoid these restrictions have found creative outlets elsewhere, like making Dark Mod missions or using more modern APIs to realise their vision.

I'm not making a prescriptive judgement here, saying what people SHOULD or SHOULD NOT do. Nor am I hoping to absolve or excuse poor design. I'm just trying to clarify the circumstances as I understand them.

DirkBogan on 9/2/2019 at 23:20

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I am also sceptical about the notion that, because some players have difficulty with some sections of a mission, the mission is therefore poorly designed. There have been a number of instances where I have been totally lost playing an FM or OM, found that nobody else had that problem I did, and eventually realised I was missing something completely obvious. Conversely, I have seen people asking for help with things I didn't even realise were intended to be difficult, or that I solved instantly. The same can be said for the test chambers in Portal 1/2, and the bosses in Dark Souls -- games that I think many people would consider very good examples of game design.

What I think this reveals is that what players find challenging is very subjective and highly dependent on the individual. One person's 'oh, was that boss supposed to be hard?' is another person's 'how could they make such an unfair boss?'

downwinder on 10/2/2019 at 00:02

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i got a big question did thief 2 om game have camvator or was that a fan mission invention?

downwinder on 10/2/2019 at 02:19

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thank you so much for reply,but please don't be so harsh on camvator ,i happen to like them a lot

you can tell me the camvator with guard running after you take his drink and he knocks over a tree is not one of the funnyest moments ever in a fan mission then he passes out in front of his job so epic,mission with glaziers organization