Cardia on 30/1/2019 at 15:59
personally i would prefer to see new custom stuff , i´ve never been a big fan of thief 2 material , however i like thief 1 materiel. Nevertheless i´m sure there will be interesting missions in this contest.
Yandros on 30/1/2019 at 16:58
Thief 1/G resources will be allowed under either rule, Cardia.
Cardia on 30/1/2019 at 17:21
Yes i know, at least a big part of thief1 resources are a feature of thief 2.
Random_Taffer on 30/1/2019 at 17:22
Quote Posted by Judith
I voted for no restrictions on assets, but that alone doesn't determine entering 21st century. I haven't finished
a single FM from the previous contest, since even those most accessible at first had difficulty spikes or other obscure design decisions. And I do play (and finish) other games on semi-regular basis, both new and old. IMO the problem isn't about asset restrictions, it's more about sitting in a design bubble, despite having resources like GDC lectures and other tutorials easily available on the net.
If something has an "obscure" design decision (in your opinion), do you stop playing it out of irritation? What specific examples can you cite from this contest so people can improve and make their missions more up to your professional standards like something you'd see in a GDC lecture?
Additionally, if everyone is pulling from the same resources and lectures, is there no worry that that could create even
more of a design bubble by constantly adhering to what is expected for modern titles?
I mean, keep in mind there's a reason there's still a community for Thief- plenty of us play modern games, but still keep coming back because a lot of modern design decisions are pretty fucking awful actually. Quicktime events, etc.
Independent Thief on 30/1/2019 at 17:31
I'd love to see stock resources+t1 only. I can tell you from experience that once you use one custom resource-it can balloon quickly and make it harder to decide what to use. Sticking to OM resources will force authors to focus on creativity.
Twist on 30/1/2019 at 18:28
Well, there are pretty insular design habits in the Thief community, but I think most of us still playing Thief FMs after all these years have come to either accept or tolerate these habits. This place is famously averse to criticism and debate, so I don't think it's changing anytime soon.
The flipside is that the aversion to criticism and debate makes this place one of the more reliably pleasant places on the Internet. Want to ruin that pleasant vibe? Try discussing game design critically here. :thumb:
And even with design quirks that might not be tolerated in other communities or in game design in general, I still find myself enjoying more FMs than not, and I feel spoiled by all the richly atmoshperic environments talented people continue to produce for us to discover and explore.
Renault on 30/1/2019 at 19:24
Quote Posted by Judith
I haven't finished
a single FM from the previous contest, since even those most accessible at first had difficulty spikes or other obscure design decisions.
All 23 missions had this, eh?
I'm guessing what really happened is that you tried 2 or 3 of them, and then gave up.
Random_Taffer on 30/1/2019 at 19:39
Quote Posted by Twist
Well, there are pretty insular design habits in the Thief community, but I think most of us still playing Thief FMs after all these years have come to either accept or tolerate these habits. This place is famously averse to criticism and debate, so I don't think it's changing anytime soon.
No doubt.
Quote Posted by Twist
The flipside is that the aversion to criticism and debate makes this place one of the more reliably pleasant places on the Internet. Want to ruin that pleasant vibe? Try discussing game design critically here. :thumb:
This place should be more open to criticism and debate, IMO. It's a bit of a hugbox and the attitude that all FMs are good because they exist really nourishes the production of mediocre releases. The FM forum description seems to promote ranting, so I think it should be allowed a lot more.
Yandros on 30/1/2019 at 19:41
I agree with that, but let's all stick to the topic of the T2 Contest in this thread, mmkay? If you all want to debate the design of the previous contest missions and FMs in general, as well as the hugbox nature of TTLG, I'm happy to spin off those comments into a new thread. It's a discussion that probably is good to have, just not here.
Judith on 30/1/2019 at 20:17
Quote Posted by Random_Taffer
If something has an "obscure" design decision (in your opinion), do you stop playing it out of irritation? What specific examples can you cite from this contest so people can improve and make their missions more up to your professional standards like something you'd see in a GDC lecture?
Additionally, if everyone is pulling from the same resources and lectures, is there no worry that that could create even
more of a design bubble by constantly adhering to what is expected for modern titles?
I mean, keep in mind there's a reason there's still a community for Thief- plenty of us play modern games, but still keep coming back because a lot of modern design decisions are pretty fucking awful actually. Quicktime events, etc.
Quote Posted by Brethren
All 23 missions had this, eh?
I'm guessing what really happened is that you tried 2 or 3 of them, and then gave up.
My spare time is limited, so if I feel that I'm going nowhere with something, then yes, I move on to something else. No, I didn't play everything from the contest list, only like 5-6 missions I read here are the best. Last I remember, I gave up on "Darkness walk with us", which was pretty cool and fairly accessible, but the difficulty spiked when things turned out more outwordly. Arcade sections and platforming will always be a bad idea with engine and player controls this ancient. I gave up on "Downtowne funk" out of boredom, it felt big for sake of being big, and lockpicking time on even most average locks seemed so long, that it seemed someone just wanted players to clock a long playthrough above anything else.
There were two more missions I remember, I think it was "Whistling of the Gears" that opened up so fast and overwhelmed the player so much that choosing a way to go was almost impossible. There was one other mission that was so tight with patrols and timing, and it was hard to figure out where to go next, so I gave up after falling into a stream several times (don't remember the name, sorry).
Associating modern design only with QTEs is pretty stereotypical, it's not about that at all. It's about things like guiding the player with environment, establishing visual language, learning about the pacing and difficulty. And these topics are presented by both indie devs and AAA veterans, there's free flow of fresh ideas, everything but a knowledge bubble.
