R Soul on 15/9/2008 at 21:10
Quote Posted by jtr7
The cuckoo clock, the security, ...
Just to be clear, my suggestion was to start with Casing and make changes so that at some point the masks arrived, but were not necessarily made ready for the exhibition. I'm really not sure why anything from that list that is currently only in Masks could not be placed in Casing.
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security later on be related to Garrett's intrusion as much as to protect the artifacts.
The point of being forced to ghost was that Garrett didn't want anyone to know he was there because they might increase security.
jtr7 on 15/9/2008 at 21:31
Okay now, Digi...what are you REALLY saying? :sly:
R Soul, we are in agreement on those points. What level of security are we talking for Casings, then? And since the cuckoo clock was broken in Casings, all things related to that problem need attention, including the conversation about it, and the upper levels being unfinished and not intended to be seen.
demagogue on 15/9/2008 at 21:39
@R Soul. Those things could be placed, but they don't have to be. So what's the real reason to do so? It was meant as two basically independent missions anyway, one downstairs, the next the top floor and a little bit of the 2nd floor to get to it, with too much overlapping fluff. One mission, two missions ... what's the major difference (once you excise the overlap) except the loadtime (taking into account all the continuity issues you'd have to hack in to combine them)? If you really despise loadtime it's a good reason, but I don't think it's that bad. Otherwise ... what's so different about G starting off in Masks right about where Casing ends?
As for all these scrolls lying around, yeah, I guess it would be on a case-by-case basis. But the way I was thinking about it was sort of the opposite side of the same coin of your point Digi ... They aren't really memorably contributing to the plot anyway, so why not leave them around as ambiance? It's not like they even have to make so much sense. If they weren't really contributing to the plot in the first place, are they really going to be undermining it after changes?
Practically speaking, if we decide to cut out a lot of rooms, or make them irrelevant, then I guess on a case by case basis you just decide to either move a book or let it disappear with the room it's in (or leave it as irrelevant fluff the player will probably never see), but if it can be kept then why not... If it's a pain, then drop it. Anyway, I'm sure whoever's doing it will just do what feels right and it should be fine.
Edit: I guess I really haven't played these missions recently enough to know everything I'm talking about, what can go and what needs to stay. But if G starts Masks already on the 2nd floor and ready to go to the top floor right off, maybe it's not so important what happens anyway.
R Soul on 15/9/2008 at 22:59
Quote Posted by jtr7
What level of security are we talking for Casings, then?
My ideas aren't that far advanced.
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And since the cuckoo clock was broken in Casings, all things related to that problem need attention, including the conversation about it, and the upper levels being unfinished and not intended to be seen.
I'm not sure why you think they need attention. My idea is basically to do away with Masks altogether. Any interesting convs or readables can be put into Casing if they're not already there, but this mission would remain largely as it is now. The top floor would be fixed (e.g. no backwards fireplaces) but would still not be ready for the exhibition.
During the mission the masks would arrive and be kept somewhere "secure" until it was time for them to go on display, and some conv would be used to inform the player, giving them new objectives. If it's actually already be the case that the masks are in the house (I can't remember such specifics), then the development could instead by that a means of accessing them is obtained.
ZylonBane on 15/9/2008 at 23:08
Quote Posted by R Soul
My idea is basically to do away with Masks altogether.
Thumbs down.
Leaving the Cultivator fetch split into two missions provides the perfect spot to insert one of the unfinished Gold missions.
jtr7 on 15/9/2008 at 23:12
Quote Posted by R Soul
I'm not sure why you think they need attention.
I don't understand the difficulty.
So, remove all mention of the cuckoo clock, and leave it simply a secret optional entrance, and let the elevator be the main way.
demagogue on 15/9/2008 at 23:27
Doing away with Masks altogether does more violence to the original flow/plot than gutting Masks of all the repetition and starting it from where Casing left off.
It's almost making an entirely new mission mixing Casing and Masks up. It's a valid idea, but a bigger detour than the alternative, which effectively does the same job with less continuity violence.
As for an opportunity to put a T2Gold mission in between, my feeling is that, if you keep 2 missions and wanted to start Masks off where Casing ended, stripping Casing, it would be a better flow to just go from one directly to the next and have that continuity so you're not as lost. Whereas if you put another mission in there, I'd think you'd would want to repeat the overlap in Masks just to reestablish that continuity, and it was exactly the overlap that I didn't like. I see the logic of it, though, and it could work too. That's just my first intuition.
R Soul on 16/9/2008 at 00:00
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Leaving the Cultivator fetch split into two missions provides the perfect spot to insert one of the unfinished Gold missions.
I keep forgetting about the Cultivator.
I've just re-read what was said about Casing/Masks turning into THC/RTC. Would it be too much of a rip-off if the cultivator room was sealed by mask-based wards, and those masks were in... a museum?
Alternatively, the room could be only accessible via the use of some technical gizmo that was in a "Modern Mechanist Marvels" section of a museum.
The idea of having the player unlock an upstairs window could be expanded a little. On their return, the player could start outside and would have to climb up, and it would be impossible to use any lower entrances.
If the player thinks they'll be getting the Cultivator on their first visit, there would be no need for any KO limiting. For their second visit, it would be interesting to have many more guards if the player caused too much commotion the first time round.
Digital Nightfall on 16/9/2008 at 00:05
Move the cultivator to the museum. I like this idea.
demagogue on 16/9/2008 at 00:43
@R Soul. That's certainly an interesting idea and would give us a clear MO for an intervening T2G mission in the meantime. It keeps the conceit about the secret entrance that's already there now, but transfers its gameplay (the role of the toolbox/clock) from the overlapped space of Masks to a whole new mission. Sort of a convenient exchange.
More food for thought...
