nightshifter on 3/6/2010 at 03:56
Quote Posted by d'Spair
I'm sure lots of people would gladly play through Thief 2 again if it was supplied with a
few additional, commercial quality missions at least partially made by LGS and then finished by the fans. I would be the first person to download and play it.
I'm confident that Thief 2 Gold project could possibly be the project
of the same potential and appeal as Thief 2X and CoSaS. Why community ignores it is beyond me.
problem would be that, with the standards that f.e. cosas did set.. those new missions would not at all fit in with the OM's...
I think that, to make those gold missions fit in, all of the OM's need to be polished up a lot..
Yandros on 3/6/2010 at 04:54
Quote Posted by nightshifter
problem would be that, with the standards that f.e. cosas did set.. those new missions would not at all fit in with the OM's...
I think that, to make those gold missions fit in, all of the OM's need to be polished up a lot..
I disagree... I think to make the T2G missions fit in, they need to be completed in the style of the T2 OMs. That means no modern hi poly objects or high res photorealistic textures, as tempting as it would be. I think they should be completed using 98% original T2 assets, with only a few new custom objects made as absolutely needed to fill in the designed story line.
d'Spair on 3/6/2010 at 08:59
Quote Posted by Yandros
I disagree... I think to make the T2G missions fit in, they need to be completed in the style of the T2 OMs. That means no modern hi poly objects or high res photorealistic textures, as tempting as it would be. I think they should be completed using 98% original T2 assets, with only a few new custom objects made as absolutely needed to fill in the designed story line.
Absolutely.
New Horizon on 3/6/2010 at 10:13
Quote Posted by Yandros
I disagree... I think to make the T2G missions fit in, they need to be completed in the style of the T2 OMs. That means no modern hi poly objects or high res photorealistic textures, as tempting as it would be. I think they should be completed using 98% original T2 assets, with only a few new custom objects made as absolutely needed to fill in the designed story line.
Agreed. That was my suggestion when the original project to finish them began. I don't fully recall, but I think a good number of the team involved at the time didn't see it that way.
My comparison is to the directors edition of Star Trek: The Motion Picture. The original director was given a chance to go back and give the movie a final edit, since he wasn't given the chance in 1979. This allowed him to finish several effects sequences that were cut for time. Rather than change all the other effects in the movie to CG, his team instead made their CG match the original practical model effects. The results are stunning.
That's the approach that should be taken here. Finish the T2 Gold missions and release them as they would have looked if LGS had released them in 2000, so they don't stand out from the rest of the game. This should not be about higher polys and flashy graphics.
An example of how NOT to do it. George Lucas and the original Star Wars Trilogy, where he altered the films and redressed a lot of scenes with eye candy, just because he could.
nicked on 3/6/2010 at 12:15
Quote Posted by New Horizon
Agreed. That was my suggestion when the original project to finish them began. I don't fully recall, but I think a good number of the team involved at the time didn't see it that way.
Actually this was exactly the approach we were trying to take - make the missions look like they were made for early 00s hardware - same polycount limits, same texture scale and quality, a conscious effort to make any custom stuff look like unused Thief 2 assets. Pity it didn't really get anywhere, but our intentions were certainly to make Thief 2 Gold as it would have been, rather than updating Thief 2.
d'Spair on 3/6/2010 at 12:42
And this is the answer.
The community nowadays is mostly interested in creating some high-poly stuff, and not actual missions. Sometimes it looks like people are trying not to make something really important, something really necessary for the Thief legacy to live on, but to show off their DromEd skills just for the sake of it. Make an FM littered with hundreds of custom objects and textures, and you're fine. And in the meantime, there are Thief 2 Gold files officially made by LGS designers, supplied with design document, and there's nothing special required from the community to complete them and release them for the joy of all, but nobody is interested, because this is... well... not that challenging. It won't Raise The Bar. It won't fit the philosophy of doing something Just Because You Can.
There is no reason to finish Thief 2 Gold. Definitely no reason at all. There is a reson for making fan missions where Garrett walks around Saturn. Or engages in deathmatch combat. Or walking through a space ship. Or whatever. A perfect reason for all that. But completing Thief 2 Gold - no, absolutely unreasonable.
zil on 3/6/2010 at 13:52
I can't help but agree with you 100% d'Spair. The fact that people aren't interested goes beyond me as well, although I'm no mission designer.. if anything, I could do a bit of music. All this needs is commitment, less unnecessary conversation and a little more action.
Renault on 3/6/2010 at 14:19
D'spair, your username is completely appropriate.
I think you guys are way off - sure, occasionally you get an unconventional FM or a super pretty showcase FM, but most levels released are standard Thief fare. You certainly couldn't say the majority of them take place on Jupiter or anything. Fire up some of the most recent ones (see my sig below) and see for yourself.
And if you're not happy with the state of Thief 2 Gold, then lend a hand instead of complaining. There's a thread over in the editor's guild to start throwing around ideas.
(
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132258)
Digital Nightfall on 3/6/2010 at 16:18
I get it, actually.
Most FM designers want to work on their own ideas. It's a pretty big mental and emotional task to work on someone else's idea with the vast majority of the community feeling entitled to dictate to you the best way to do it. It's much easier and more satisfying to work on your own, personal, projects. Designing Thief 2 Gold would make you something of a public figure, or even a public enemy.
I understand completely why it hasn't been done. That said, I still hope someone will.
d'Spair on 3/6/2010 at 16:56
Brethren, I'm not skillfull enough to take on the project of a Thief 2 Gold caliber, anyway. And I'm definitely not crticizing any of the FM makers out there, because people can do what they want, and I'm not the person to dictate.
However, I've always thought that the release of some official assets (even half-baked ones) would attarct a lot of attention from Thief community. To my surprise, it's absolutely opposite. Looks like that some of the most skillfull Thief modders out there actually don't care much about LGS legacy.
Digital Nightfall, you're absolutely right about this.
