New Horizon on 18/4/2011 at 11:32
Quote Posted by Jah
It would be like a new author picking up an old book and adding in new chapters based on the original author's notes.
Which has been done by authors in the past and considered canonical. I don't see why, if the mission authors followed the guidelines laid out by LGS, these missions couldn't be considered canonical. If they follow the primary plot threads set out in the design notes, then the minor details...like AI conversations...are not about to derail anything that happened after.
Jah on 19/4/2011 at 06:21
Quote Posted by New Horizon
Which has been done by authors in the past and considered canonical. I don't see why, if the mission authors followed the guidelines laid out by LGS, these missions couldn't be considered canonical.
I guess we just have different views of what can be considered canonical, then. I would never place a pastiche, imitation or approximation of the originals in that category.
Where do you draw the line, anyway? How much LGS influence does a mission need to qualify as canonical?
intruder on 19/4/2011 at 14:00
Don't get me wrong, but I think your discussion illustrates perfectly why no one picks up Thief 2 Gold to finish it...
Either you accept the fact that FM-makers cannot reproduce exact LGS missions and storylines because we are not LGS and we are influenced by other things or you can't accept it.
New Horizon on 19/4/2011 at 20:19
Quote Posted by Jah
I guess we just have different views of what can be considered canonical, then. I would never place a pastiche, imitation or approximation of the originals in that category.
The missions were intended to be finished using the
actual map file geometry originally built by LGS. We would be using the same tools (dromed) and we have the production notes / plot lines LGS had intended for the final missions...even where they were thinking of placing them.
Quote:
Where do you draw the line, anyway? How much LGS influence does a mission need to qualify as canonical?
If all of the files and documentation we have for Thief 2 Gold doesn't qualify those maps as canonical in your eyes, then nothing short of a core group of former LGS developers miraculously deciding to reform and finish the missions themselves will be satisfactory in some peoples eyes. This is the closest we'll ever get to an official T2 Gold.
My suggestion would be to finish T2 Gold and then send out a request to all the former LGS devs we know of and ask for their personal blessing. A christening, if you will, to grant our T2 Gold 'canonical' status.
d'Spair on 19/4/2011 at 21:36
Quote Posted by New Horizon
My suggestion would be to finish T2 Gold and then send out a request to all the former LGS devs we know of and ask for their personal blessing. A christening, if you will, to grant our T2 Gold 'canonical' status.
Great idea, but somehow I'm afraid that would never happen.
jtr7 on 20/4/2011 at 06:00
Too bad we can't get more of their ideas, and the intentions they had, and how they thought expanding the story even further wouldn't make Garrett even more dumb. I'd especially like to know what the drunk Hammerite was supposed to tell Garrett about Karras's past.
Jah on 20/4/2011 at 06:29
Quote Posted by New Horizon
The missions were intended to be finished using the
actual map file geometry originally built by LGS. We would be using the same tools (dromed) and we have the production notes / plot lines LGS had intended for the final missions...even where they were thinking of placing them.
Like I said, even within the boundaries of the LGS production notes, the map geometry can be used in a number of different ways to produce a number of different missions. If two authors started working separately on the same T2G mission, they would inevitably produce different missions. How would you determine which one is more "canonical"?
Quote Posted by New Horizon
If all of the files and documentation we have for Thief 2 Gold doesn't qualify those maps as canonical in your eyes, then nothing short of a core group of former LGS developers miraculously deciding to reform and finish the missions themselves will be satisfactory in some peoples eyes. This is the closest we'll ever get to an official T2 Gold.
My suggestion would be to finish T2 Gold and then send out a request to all the former LGS devs we know of and ask for their personal blessing. A christening, if you will, to grant our T2 Gold 'canonical' status.
To be honest, I see no need to get too obsessed about "canonical" or "official". If someone decides to create their versions of the T2G missions, I'll play them, canonical or not. To me, what matters most is that these missions are good - that they have enjoyable gameplay and fit into the original T2 in terms of plot and characters. In fact, I'm guessing that people might feel less intimidated and less constrained about picking up a T2G mission if they weren't expected to step into the LGS developers' shoes to create an "official" mission.
jtr7 on 20/4/2011 at 09:33
If they weren't committed to aligning within TMA in every way possible (knowing not all ways are possible), then they wouldn't rightfully be T2G missions. They would be like Bulgarian_Taffer's college mission, which took an unfinished OM and built on it without trying to be an expansion of TMA. If an author wants to take a file and run with it, that's entirely different than dedication to matching and enhancing and building unobtrusively within TMA's story and aesthetic, strictly staying within Garrett's perspective at that spot on the trilogy timeline. It's less about the official canon, and more about creative restriction and imposition. People are more likely to build what they want than to try and build according to what already exists and fit it like another piece of the puzzle. One individual or small group is unlikely to match the flavor of an OM on all levels, having strentghts that are their own, and their own "voice."
Jah on 20/4/2011 at 10:40
Quote Posted by jtr7
If they weren't committed to aligning within TMA in every way possible (knowing not all ways are possible), then they wouldn't rightfully be T2G missions. They would be like Bulgarian_Taffer's college mission, which took an unfinished OM and built on it without trying to be an expansion of TMA. If an author wants to take a file and run with it, that's entirely different than dedication to matching and enhancing and building unobtrusively within TMA's story and aesthetic, strictly staying within Garrett's perspective at that spot on the trilogy timeline.
What I meant was that even if the author DID follow these principles, they would probably feel less pressure if people accepted that what they're creating is still just their personal interpretation of LGS' development notes for the T2G missions, not "official" expansions to the canon.
