The Magpie on 30/1/2008 at 16:19
First, thanks for the progress update, Tos.
Quote Posted by Tos
the biggest issues remaining are the lagging guards,
...well, I tend to feel that Vort is onto something with that "heartbeat" thing could have something to do with that. You haven't had any luck figuring out what exactly the property does yet?
Because I find it's remarkable how the SS2 AIs do not behave in that way. You've tried to, uh, isolate the differences between the Thief and SS2 AIs?
Quote Posted by Tos
(very infrequent now) crashes, and some odd behavior with AI and player projectiles.
Oddness. Player projectiles are different than AI arrows, I take it. Can the guard arrows be sunk into wood, for instance? I can't remember. Do you suppose the AIs still have trouble reacting correctly to objects from the player not hosting them, then? How are mines and flashbombs received, for example? Water arrows on boilers? Water arrows to wash away blood?
--
L.
not really knowing wtf he's talking about, but still enthusiastic.
vort on 30/1/2008 at 17:22
removing heartbeat from SS2 doesn't seem to do anything obvious, same for adding it in Thief. It is used, because we see it being sent between the players, but we just don't know for what yet.
Player rope and vine arrows release multiple ropes or vines (depending on which you use, of course) and sometimes your arrows get bugged and fly straight down into the ground making them useless. Aside from that, arrows work like they do in SP.
The problem with AI projectiles is that they are sometimes duplicated like the vines, which leads to archers firing 2+ arrows at once, we thought it might be related to having both players create the arrows, but I have seen up to four at a time with only two players in the game so we're not too sure about that anymore.
It's not really as bad as it sounds, we just have to be extra careful around archers at the moment, because when they say "let's see how you look as a porcupine" they actually mean it. It's most likely fixable but will just take more time to figure out.
Flashbombs work just fine, but uh I haven't really bothered with mines...ever to be honest, probably should check those out.
Lovecraftian on 30/1/2008 at 17:32
THIEF + MULTIPLAYER?!
I DO NOT KNOW:weird: AN ERRRROOOORRRRRRRRR
Tos on 30/1/2008 at 21:40
Quote Posted by The Magpie
...well, I tend to feel that Vort is onto something with that "heartbeat" thing could have something to do with that. You haven't had any luck figuring out what exactly the property does yet?
As far as I can tell, the heartbeat setting has no effect on the rate at which ghost heartbeats are sent. We're not entirely sure what it's for at the moment.
Quote Posted by The Magpie
Because I find it's remarkable how the SS2 AIs do not behave in that way. You've tried to, uh, isolate the differences between the Thief and SS2 AIs?
Believe me, no one is more frustrated by that than myself. I figured that if
anything were to work right off the bat, it would be the things that were similar between SS2 and Thief 2, such as the AI. No such luck. There don't seem to be any significant differences between the way the two games handle the AI that could be causing this.
My current feeling is that some of the "sliding" that we're seeing from the AIs is caused by the client-side movement prediction. It's especially noticeable when they
should be standing still and shaking their fists at you if they can't reach you for whatever reason. If you're not hosting them they'll appear to slide towards you, then suddenly snap back into the correct position when a heartbeat is received from the host. Disabling the prediction stops this, but again, I'm not at all sure why this is an issue in Thief and not SS2.
Quote Posted by The Magpie
Oddness. Player projectiles are different than AI arrows, I take it. Can the guard arrows be sunk into wood, for instance? I can't remember. Do you suppose the AIs still have trouble reacting correctly to objects from the player not hosting them, then? How are mines and flashbombs received, for example? Water arrows on boilers? Water arrows to wash away blood?
The AIs generally react just fine to objects used by non-host players actually, it's mostly just sounds that are a problem. As vort said, we haven't tried mines, but I think flashbombs do work. Water arrows will only disable robots if the host fires them, which is odd since they'll extinguish torches properly for any player. Haven't tried using them on blood yet.
SalaciousCrumb on 30/1/2008 at 23:48
Could the "heartbeat" property be linked in some way to the respawning in SS2?
Tos on 31/1/2008 at 00:16
Heartbeats are used for updating objects in multiplayer games, and don't really have anything to do with respawning. There are seven different types of them, and they carry varying amounts and types of information. The ones that are sent frequently are usually non-guaranteed, small packets that just contain position or rotation data for an object.
(
http://s149432842.onlinehome.us/heartbeats.jpg) Here's a shot of typical heartbeat usage, using something I wrote a few days ago to display debugging information in game (using the new multiplayer chat system).
Henri The Hammer on 5/2/2008 at 21:37
Any progress? Could you possibly release a beta or something? Or at least a new video of the progress? I don't care if it's a bit very buggy, I'd just love to try Thief in LAN. :D
Oh, and I don't know if this is even possible to make with The Dark Engine, but it would be cool as hell if you could speak into the microphone and then the other player/the guards would hear it. Is that possible?
Anyway, keep up the good work. :thumb:
Beleg Cúthalion on 5/2/2008 at 22:27
...but only if you're close to someone. I mentioned this thought before, did I? I mean that only someone being close should hear/read what some taffer is saying/writing. That Walkie-Talkie thing is something I never really liked, no matter if I played Diablo or Age of Empires in multiplayer.
Henri The Hammer on 5/2/2008 at 22:35
Yeah, that's what I mean. Thiefs in that time didn't have walkie-talkies. :D Players/guards would only be able to hear the other player talking if close enough... Would be a great feature if made. :)
jtr7 on 5/2/2008 at 22:41
If the verbal communication could be broadcast within the virtual world from the player position so it wouldn't sound completely like a walkie-talkie, and it could alert nearby AI based on volume, and the players could yell across large spaces, hear their voice reverberate in-game, and then whisper to a co-op team member without everybody else hearing it. Of course, if it were possible, the players would sound like stormtroopers.
