Kaiseto on 15/10/2006 at 00:51
These parallels of the analysis are moot unless the original intent was to create the game and characters as representing such, which I severely doubt.
I don't think this makes a game any less art. Literature has been purely for entertainment many times before. The artistic aspect of a game comes in how it is presented, and told just as much as the themes it carries.
DarkThiefsie on 15/10/2006 at 04:02
Well - i don't think we should write him off too quickly. I can kinda see Jashnin's point of view - whether this is what the designers intended, i have no idea.
I'm no arts student, but i would say that the ending is more akin to an imagined 'fall of capitalism' - i.e. the original capitalistic form was protestant - the creation and investment of wealth for God. Then, it became more individualistic. The same can be seen here with the keepers - they originally used Runes for the safeguard of the city - now they use it for individual purposes - creating a monster.
Well - whether this is what the designers intended i have no idea:p - but it is fun to speculate :D
Gestalt on 15/10/2006 at 04:38
Quote Posted by DarthMRN
Curiously, before T3 was released, I assumed the ending video would show us an aged Garrett living alone in a big mansion, his exploits having finally paid off big time.
And then, of course, a mysterious cowled figure would silently drop out of the rafters and proceed to pocket all of Garrett's silverware while he wasn't looking.
Jashin on 15/10/2006 at 07:41
The funny thing is, the only thing that keeps gaming from being an escapist entertainment is precisely the developers' hidden commentaries (whether consciously or otherwise), and the players' reactions to them. So I'm gonna say that Kaiseto is wrong. If a game doesn't have any such thing to speak of, it speaks to the quality of the developers.
Yes it's abstract, the point is to see Garrett, the Keepers, and everything else as not characters in someone's imagination, but entities which somehow relate to the real world. How else would they matter in 2006?
Quote Posted by DarkThiefsie
Well - i don't think we should write him off too quickly. I can kinda see Jashnin's point of view - whether this is what the designers intended, i have no idea.
I'm no arts student, but i would say that the ending is more akin to an imagined 'fall of capitalism' - i.e. the original capitalistic form was protestant - the creation and investment of wealth for God. Then, it became more individualistic. The same can be seen here with the keepers - they originally used Runes for the safeguard of the city - now they use it for individual purposes - creating a monster.
Well - whether this is what the designers intended i have no idea:p - but it is fun to speculate :D
One of the few comments I can respond to :D
I want to point out though: The function of capitalism is consolidation; at the end of Thief III Garrett becomes the one and only keeper, hence it's the rise of capitalism, not the fall. The monster and Garrett are actually one and the same - they're both defections from the same source, and both are "disguised." They're the final halves which do battle to complete the whole, which signals the entrance of the new age.
Think about it, Garret's rebirth into The One reveals the keepers to the common people. The Keeper compound appears in the middle of the city as a remnant of a by-gone era (during the Renaissense many remnants of Feudalism remained). The cycle of The Thief, fulfilled by Garrett when he takes in the girl, is allegorical of the impermanence of a certain societal structure, and its rebirth when the time is right (this suggests the girl will someday turn away from Garrett just like he did with Artemis, and repeat the cycle all over again). And finally, the anxiety of the Keepers in response to the destruction of the glyph magic is the same anxiety that we'll all have when the "democratic" capitalist way of life will eventually turn into something else. The changes in USA have already started.
DarthMRN on 15/10/2006 at 21:11
Quote Posted by Jashin
Garret's rebirth into The One
(shiver)
Now you got me imagining Thief with sunglasses and arrow dodging.
"Welcome back, Mr. Garrett. We've missed you. A refreshment, Mr. Garrett?"
Solabusca on 15/10/2006 at 22:35
Quote Posted by Jashin
I want to point out though: The function of capitalism is consolidation; at the end of Thief III Garrett becomes the one and only keeper, hence it's the rise of capitalism, not the fall. The monster and Garrett are actually one and the same - they're both defections from the same source, and both are "disguised." They're the final halves which do battle to complete the whole, which signals the entrance of the new age.
Think about it, Garret's rebirth into The One reveals the keepers to the common people. The Keeper compound appears in the middle of the city as a remnant of a by-gone era (during the Renaissense many remnants of Feudalism remained). The cycle of The Thief, fulfilled by Garrett when he takes in the girl, is allegorical of the impermanence of a certain societal structure, and its rebirth when the time is right (this suggests the girl will someday turn away from Garrett just like he did with Artemis, and repeat the cycle all over again). And finally, the anxiety of the Keepers in response to the destruction of the glyph magic is the same anxiety that we'll all have when the "democratic" capitalist way of life will eventually turn into something else. The changes in USA have already started.
Dear god. Do you actually believe this waste your spouting?
I... really don't have words to explain to you just why you should stop, beyond laughing incoherently or quietly reminding you that you are completely full of it.
Please, for the sake of what little sanity remains, STOP applying your views on contemporary US economic and social theory to the Thief games.
.j.
themetalian on 15/10/2006 at 22:52
GARRETT 4 PRESIDENT.
:cheeky:
ascottk on 15/10/2006 at 22:56
Quote Posted by Solabusca
Dear god. Do you actually believe this waste your spouting?
I... really don't have words to explain to you just why you should stop, beyond laughing incoherently or quietly reminding you that you are completely full of it.
Please, for the sake of what little sanity remains, STOP applying your views on contemporary US economic and social theory to the Thief games.
.j.
Dear god. Stop your whining :tsktsk: Someone tries to have a semi-intelligent conversation around here & they get flamed :p
ercles on 16/10/2006 at 00:00
I fail to see how someone posting pretentious theories on the deeper meaning on theif which lack any real sense of logic equates to an intelligent conversation.
ascottk on 16/10/2006 at 00:13
Quote Posted by ercles
I fail to see how someone posting pretentious theories on the deeper meaning on theif which lack any real sense of logic equates to an intelligent conversation.
Read this line a little closer:
Quote Posted by ascottk
Someone tries to have a semi-intelligent conversation around here & they get flamed :p
Note the "tries" and the "semi-intelligent" words in my response . . .
Beside it's t-h-i-e-f not t-h-e-i-f. "i" before "e" except after "c". :thumb:
