Captain Spandex on 12/5/2012 at 12:48
Pardon if I don't light the torch and brandish the pitchfork just yet.
#1, it's not official info. And given all the staff turnover of late, for all we know, it was just an element they explored and eventually decided against. These things do happen. There's so many 'could be' scenarios, it's basically non-information.
#2, I don't happen to think third-person takedowns are the antichrist incarnate. I'm embarrassed to say I was reactionary when I saw Deus Ex: Human Revolution would have them. I thought for sure they'd detract from the experience, and was flabbergasted to discover... they really didn't detract at all from the game. I thoroughly enjoyed it all the same.
Mind you, I'm not flying a 'third-person takedowns' banner or anything. I'd just as soon they not be included. But I'm willing to give EM the benefit of the doubt, because Deus Ex 3 was one of the best games I've had the privilege of playing in over a decade. I think they've earned some leeway in that regard. That's just me.
Neb on 12/5/2012 at 13:16
The takedowns in Deus Ex are tiny cutscenes. They detract from the game by definition.
Avalon on 12/5/2012 at 15:45
If the game is true enough to the Thief series, 'Takedowns' could refer to a three hour cinematic detailing the epic journey that lead your victim from his humble beginnings as an infant to his demise at your hands, and you would be just fine because you would never have to see that cinematic in order to win.
Queue on 12/5/2012 at 17:52
Touching upon on what Goldmoon Dawn said:
The last "new" game I actually enjoyed playing was, Hitman: Blood Money...and that was 2006. And for a game series that I truly love, the latest installment that's slated for release later this year holds little to no interest for me. What I've seen of it is so highly cinematic, and reeking of The Dark Knight, I just don't care. The trailers shown give one the feeling of mostly moving around within a film--it's as if I'm watching a movie in which I can participate, instead of playing a game. And the handful of trailers out there demonstrate that it's filled with plenty of cut scenes (all of which will very quickly become very redundant and obnoxious), which are used for... well, I guess they're used to add greater emphasis when taking out an AI. Personally, I don't get it. I'd rather just perform a task and move on. I don't need some cinematic to show me what I just did. It slows down the flow too much.
And for me, this is the biggest turn off in regards to the newer batch of games: they're too "over the top". I'd rather play a game that's been produced without so much emphasis put toward the woo-hoo moments. I don't need to see a slowed-down scene of some AI falling from a ledge to his death. I don't need "bullet time", even though I truly loved both of the original Max Payne titles and thought they were two of the best games ever made (but this is only because the story was compelling and was presented in an interesting manner, and the game-play was fresh with the bullet time feature integrated well... but, in the end, neither of the games really needed it, and would have been just as fantastic with it). I don't really care if the graphics quality is so amazing that it's as if "you're right there". I don't really want the games that I play to be akin to popcorn flicks--films so heavy with high quality explosions and gadgets and shine, yet lacking in script and plot; for just like many of those films, there's really no point in sitting through all great cinematic magic again because you've already seen it once, and there ain't going to be any "new" about it the second time around.
Games like Thief, Hitman, Max Payne, Mafia, GTA Vice City, the first couple of Call of Duty games (and such) -- even dumb-ass Postal 2 -- I can go back and play again and again because the game play is a lot of fun and not cluttered with a bunch of repetitive hooey (well, Postal 2 was, but you got kill everything in sight in hilarious ways). It's all about the game play, isn't it? But it seems like so many of the newer titles are focusing more and more on offering a sense of realism and fantastic eye-candy instead of later replay-ability. At least that's how it seems to me. I could be wrong.
But irrespective my view, I do hope that with this reboot of Thief (and we all know it's gonna be a reboot, and it's going to be one that's geared toward capturing a newer and younger audience over placating the nostalgic tendencies of the dwindling and aging group of the original Thief fans) that the developers keep in mind that it's always been about playing the game, not having an experience. And a Thief title should be replay-able without the player becoming utterly annoyed by the repetitiveness of a bunch of unnecessary bullshit (like takedown cut-scenes). The player shouldn't be able to say afterward, "Thief? I played it once...it was fun...had some neat gadgets...some really sweet cut-scenes.... But, I traded it in last week for something new."
I don't care for, what I consider to be, disposable games, the ones that are made so by design. They simply aren't worth the price of admission to me.
So for now, I remain mildly optimistic about Thief 4, but wouldn't be surprised, or crushed, or care if it turns out to be a huge disappointment for the old fans. It doesn't matter to me, for I honestly haven't found much charm in any of the new games. In today's market, to me, it seems that there aren't that many games being made with replay-ability in mind for the single gamer, and that instead developers are focusing too much on a one-time-experience for the single player then hoping that the multi-player/on-line gaming will hold people's interest long enough to bilk a few more bucks out of them before a new title comes around.
Oh well. I can still play the old stuff, save my cash, and still have a ton of fun.
arandomgamer02 on 12/5/2012 at 19:10
I don't think about Thief 4 all that much. I will certainly play it when it's released but I'm not holding my breath. It's not going to be anything like the first two games. Thief 4 will be a success in my mind if it takes what was good about the first two games and brings it into 2012. Gaming has changed a lot in the last 12 years, Deadly Shadows nonwithstanding. In other words, being respectful about the origins of the series and of stealth gaming while trying to add new innovations just like the original did.
I also think it's entirely possible that Human Revolution is a sort of preview for Thief 4, much like Invisible War was linked to Deadly Shadows.
Many of us will compare Thief 4 to The Dark Project and to the Metal Age, but not as much to Deadly Shadows, or even other franchises like Splinter Cell and Hitman. It's good to keep things in perspective. That's an unfair comparison and it plants a negative idea of the game in our heads before we even know anything! I'm sure it will be entertaining in it's own right, let's wait and see :D
jtr7 on 12/5/2012 at 22:06
Of course it's going to be entertaining. It will be a marketable game that functions like a game to be sold in millions of units. But will it be modern gaming with a Thiefy twist, or updated Thief, and will I be able to dive right in, or will all the things that make gaming suck on a practical level--how it hits my eyes, and how my hand movements translate to actions in the world--be glaringly obstructive, as is the norm for modern gaming for me? I have no doubt it will suck for my eyes and be a ruinous mess in action for me, not to mention how easy it will be for the writers to make a mockery of the best Thiefy narrative stylings. It could make the storytelling deeper than ever, or come across as homage and "respectful" diversion from it.
Goldmoon Dawn on 12/5/2012 at 22:30
Wizardry, Might and Magic, Underworld, System Shock, and Thief all had stripped down first person views. Ultima and its ilk used the third person view. I myself never really enjoyed it all that much, because you are looking down at the rooms from a camera. No matter how pretty you make the rooms detail you will always just be looking down at it. I tolerated it for Ultima though. First person view obviously draws you directly into the gaming world. Combine that with good physics and craft masterful missions. That probably will not happen, though. What with all the speculation as of late, one might even begin thinking that a light gem will no longer be needed !
Tannar on 13/5/2012 at 05:27
You all make excellent points.
Queue, that was an enjoyable read. Thanks. Happy belated birthday, btw.
Al_B on 13/5/2012 at 05:48
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
Ultima and its ilk used the third person view.
Don't forget that Ultima 1-5 all had first person perspective areas. Considering hardware capabilities at the time it was a good move not to use it for the whole game.
twisty on 13/5/2012 at 15:30
Looking back in time at when the Ion Storm Austin forums were ablaze with fervent discourse, raging from the deeply change resistant fan base, I fully sympathise with Eidos Montreal's lack of publicity for the next Thief game. While I never really liked either of the sequels that Ion Storm produced, I based my judgement on the sum of the end product's parts rather than the number of changes that they made. As such, without having much to go on for part 4, I can't see any reason to worry about what features will or won't make it into the sequel; it's the end product (if it ever get's here) that I am looking forward to. All other speculations at this point are meaningless.
