Thief (4) Features. What we know is in, what we know is out.

Renault on 18/7/2013 at 21:16

Just saw this on the official forums from B1skit, thought it was at least interesting enough to mention:

Quote:

No - Garrett's eye is not mechanical. He receives his special ability to focus (related to his eye) in a significant story beat early in the game (sorry, no spoilers)

Also, it appears Focus can be replenished not only by grabbing poppies, but also by performing certain in-game tasks, like lockpicking and other stealth oriented things.

Oh, and there will be some type of "non-human" characters in the game (not necessarily zombies though).

Edit: More updates, I didn't see this until today, but there was a summary posted a few weeks ago from the "We played Thief at E3" thread from the official forums, formatted into a Q&A session, which might give people a nice quick read instead of wading through the entire thread. All of the questions are directly from forum users (including one by yours truly). It's a decent summary, surely slanted a bit in EM's favor but not obnoxiously so. Some good info there, especially if you're catching up:

(http://community.eidosmontreal.com/blogs/Thief-Community-QA-Wrapup)

AND...

This video introduces you to the Russian Garrett. This guy provided the voice of Garrett (in Russian) without doing any kind of motion capture or stunt work. See EM, it is (https://www.change.org/petitions/eidos-montreal-square-enix-bring-back-stephen-russell-for-thief-4) possible!

(http://community.eidosmontreal.com/blogs/Loot-Steals-You)

Chade on 18/7/2013 at 21:37

Quote Posted by Vae

Relax Chade...it's okay...:)...He wasn't talking to you...There were some deleted posts...we'll talk later.

*deep breaths*

ok ... probably should have just stopped arguing earlier ...

So. Does anyone read PC Gamer UK?

Renault on 19/7/2013 at 04:04

Yeah, just picked up a copy of the article and read it tonight, as a matter of fact. Here's a quote from it:

Quote:

"We won't be able to make everybody happy," says Daniel Windfeld Schmidt. He's the lead level designer on Eidos Montreal's Thief relaunch, and he's right. I recently played the first-person stealth game, and some people aren't going to be happy.

This Thief game has third-person climbing sections. It makes minor use of quick time events. It has "Focus Mode'," which gifts master thief Garrett with limited time-slowing combat abilities. It has context-sensitive controls that mean you can only jump when the game says you can jump.

I obviously haven't been paying attention for a couple of days, because I just read through a bunch of stuff in this thread and over on the official forums about jumping and freedom of movement (it was also in Jerion's E3 review, musta missed that too). So, now on top of all the other "consoley" things they're doing to the game, they're tacking on:

1) ALL jumping and mantling is context sensitive.
2) The player can't fall from high locations.

What the hell? I can't think of a single reason why they would they design a Thief game (any game!) this way. I can't even think of any other modern first person game that has any kind of restrictions like this. DXHR, Dishonored, Far Cry, Skyrim, Fallout New Vegas, Crysis, even Bioshock Infinite - these games all allow it. These game all have far more freedom of movement than New Thief will. Let me repeat:

Bioshock Infinite will allow more freedom in player movement than New Thief will. The most linear piece of shit game I've ever paid $60 for, and New Thief will make it look like Stalker.

What happened to sticking to the DNA?

It's funny, earlier this week I was thinking to myself, "You know, I should appreciate some of the things the devs are doing. They decided to make the game primarily first-person after all, which is huge. They're letting us turn off all sorts of on-screen stuff and disable Focus. and you can still play the game without killing or alerting anyone, and there's actually objectives to support that."

But I'm sorry, it's not enough. Not if you're going to call the game Thief, and then claim you're honoring the game's origins.

Consider my vote officially changed from "Day One purchase" to "Maybe on a Steam sale." Face it everyone, this game is going to be severely handicapped and crippled, and it's probably going to suck BAD. Unless they miraculously change something. I can't believe they feel they need to dumb the game down this much just to sell 5 million copies. I really just want to punch Daniel Windfeld Schmidt right in the face at the moment (figuratively of course, don't call the cops on me).

And you know what? This all might just backfire on them. I don't think gamers are as stupid as EM thinks they are.

Chade on 19/7/2013 at 05:44

Do they say anything else about it? Any other new information?

I think the Bioshock comparison is rather tame, actually. The more damning comparison would be with Assassins Creed, that game that was dreaded around here for it's semi automatic movement ... which also happens to a) let's you jump manually, b) makes you hold a button to get semi-automatic jumping, and c) the semi-automatic jumping can (quite easily in my experience) fail miserably.

The only justification I can think of is that there is more climbing in thief 4 then other games, and the consequences of falling are greater, so they want you to be less likely to fall. But even if we agreed with that reasoning, you could just give the player safe auto jump spots to use while allowing them jump however they want elsewhere. And then if you did that, it would be trivial to add an option to disable auto jumping in the menus. I can't think of any precedent or reason for completely removing manual jumping.

nickie on 19/7/2013 at 06:25

I agree Brethren, lack of jumping (and falling) when I want is just not on. If that's exactly what is meant then it's very bad news for me. Falling from a great height, dropping a body just before you land to break your fall, is one of the most fun things to do. That and not being able to put a rope arrow more or less where I want seems to be taking the best bits out.

Wandering off at a tangent, from the (http://community.eidosmontreal.com/blogs/Thief-Community-QA-Wrapup)" target="_blank">(http://community.eidosmontreal.com/blogs/Thief-Community-QA-Wrapup)) Q & A WrapUp that Brethren posted which I hadn't read before:

Quote:

4. And most importantly, how does Focus work? I don't want a noob crutch and that's really what it looks like. I know I don't HAVE to use it, but I'm wondering if it's obligatory and the game will be asking me to use it all the time like how Assassin's Creed prompts me to use eagle vision all the time. I want to play the game without focus (Posted by GrumpyPanda)

John: Focus is far from obligatory, and can be turned off from the menu. It's not like a cover system or anything of that sort; it is simply there to make the game easier for those who want it. There might be a moment where it becomes very difficult to proceed without it, but everything indicated that simply being careful, observant and quick-witted (if you choose to enter combat) will take care of things just fine. The description "optional" in this case does genuinely appear optional.

Bearing in mind that I do mostly skim read because of lack of time (sorry) so it probably has been posted elsewhere, am I getting this right? The sentence seems to be implying that there may be times when there's only a choice between using focus and fighting? Surely he can't mean that.

SubJeff on 19/7/2013 at 06:41

If this jumping thing is true then this really is shaping up to be the biggest mess up of recent times.

Al_B on 19/7/2013 at 07:01

Quote Posted by Vae

In NuThief, there is: No Free-Jumping...No Free-Climbing...No Free-Leaning...No Free-Falling...No Free-Roping

I thought this had been clarified before (in the context of discussing having to press a button to drop down from a height):

Quote Posted by b1skit

There is only an "unglue" button, as you call it, at extreme heights - your normal exploration abilities are just as they were in the classic games. You can climb up onto, say, garden beds, bookshelves, etc, and drop off just like you could in the classic Thief games. You can also vault over smaller obstacles smoothly, which feels great.

<hr />

Quote Posted by nickie

The sentence seems to be implying that there may be times when there's only a choice between using focus and fighting? Surely he can't mean that.

I was actually reassured by part of the PC Gamer article discussing Focus mode when talking about game options to deal with different player styles:

Quote:

Those options include an 'old school mode', which ups the difficulty, turns off the UI helpers and entirely removes Garrett's new Focus abilities. Daniel even makes it sound like this is the real experience they want to provide, calling it 'more immersive'. "We're not balancing the game with Focus in mind, we're balancing it without. I don't think that's something that people are aware of, but Focus is the player's fallback, not the level designers'."

As long as they maintain the ability to ghost in "old school mode" then that would mean fighting is never required with or without focus.

SubJeff on 19/7/2013 at 07:08

Quote Posted by Al_B

I thought this had been clarified before (in the context of discussing having to press a button to drop down from a height):

I thought that and the rope arrow points were the only "fixing" behaviors.

Context sensitive mantling and jumping though... JUMPING! Wtf!?

Ridiculous.

I know why they are doing it because I've played some console games recently. But this really is consolisation via shifting away from player skill towards simulated skill.

Vae on 19/7/2013 at 07:41

Quote Posted by Brethren

Face it everyone, this game is going to be severely handicapped and crippled, and it's probably going to suck BAD. Unless they miraculously change something. I can't believe they feel the need to dumb the game down this much just to sell 5 million copies. I really just want to punch Daniel Windfeld Schmidt right in the face at the moment...

Now you begin to understand where some of us have been coming from, brother...and now this same righteous fury begins to kindle within thy heart. As well it should, for this defiler "Schmidt" holds insolent contempt, not only for the sacred principals, which bring us the beloved fruits of emergence...but for the THIEF community, as well...EM's ill-work is becoming nothing more than a shameful mockery, that taunts the true of heart.

It is only a matter of time, before the false hope of the denier withers on the vine.

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Quote Posted by Vae

In NuThief, there is: No Free-Jumping...No Free-Climbing...No Free-Leaning...No Free-Falling...No Free-Roping

Quote Posted by Al_B

I thought this had been clarified before (in the context of discussing having to press a button to drop down from a height):

Quote Posted by b1skit

Notice how he deceptively leaves out how these other "classic abilities" are accomplished...The "unglue" drop-down command key is seperate from what I refer to as the "Contextual Action Key", containing at least three contextual actions...

Quote Posted by Vae

Let me explain:

1) There is no dedicated "Jump Button" for free-jumping.

2) Climbing, Jumping, and Swoop...are all controlled by the same Contextual Action control key.

3) The game decides for the player what action they will perform, based on the predetermined context, with an infallible action move.

Examples:

- If the player faces a wall that the game decides can be climbed, and they press the Contextual Action Key, the game will perform an action move of NuGarrett climbing up the wall to a location at the top.

- If the player comes to a ledge on the 2nd story of a building, and the game determines that there is a gap that can be jumped to another ledge, and they press the Contextual Action Key, the game will perform an action move of NuGarrett jumping from ledge to ledge, without error.

4) If the player is not in a contextual hotspot, and the Contextual Action Key is used, the game automatically determines that the player wants to Swoop, and does so with a hyper-sprint action move.

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Quote Posted by Al_B

I was actually reassured by part of the PC Gamer article discussing Focus mode when talking about game options to deal with different player styles:

Quote:

He is simply referring to the removal of NuGarrett's mystical ability "Focus", which can supposedly be turned off in the menu...That is all.

Al_B on 19/7/2013 at 08:44

Quote Posted by Vae

I know the "drop-down" action is separate but it was in the quote for context purposes. It sounded like jumping and climbing is more free-form than just at fixed locations but the PC Gamer article is definitely worrying if that's actually the case. Has it actually been stated that there is one key / button for all three actions or is that your inference?

Quote Posted by Vae

He is simply referring to the removal of NuGarrett's mystical ability "Focus", which can supposedly be turned off in the menu...That is all.

Yes. It wasn't a reply to your post - it was in response to nickie's comment.