Al_B on 7/2/2012 at 07:40
jtr - I'm not arguing against the economic points in your post - I agree that everyone needs to set their own priorities about what entertainment they prioritise and how to spend their money.
However, I don't see why that or some of your technical points have really changed in recent years. If someone hasn't got mains power or a display / monitor then they're going to struggle(!) to play games, just as they would have done five, ten or twenty years ago.
Quote Posted by jtr7
... it's gotten to the point where gaming's not frikkin' simple or self-contained.
In many respects, gaming has become simpler in recent years - particularly if as others suggest you're happy to consider using consoles. This may change in time but at least for now they offer an alternative to a forced internet connection.
jtr7 on 7/2/2012 at 08:03
I'd need at least one wall socket for one of my old powerstrips, a newer television set or monitor hookup compatible with the cables that come with it or adapters to circumvent incompatible jack types, electricity to run it, a place to hang out and play it and leave it set-up or a the ability to pack it up when I'm done for the session, and I will need to have a mouse and keyboard for the console. It's not simple and certainly not cheap (relative to having no cash to blow at all) unless one already has a home and can pay the bills. No game is worth the price of purchasing all the equipment, and setting all that up in light of being broke to begin with and not interested in more than a couple of titles. Again, even if I had money to blow, there's little in gaming I'm interested in. I'm not disinterested in gaming over money, but content and interface issues I do not care for in the least, which is why I'm aggressive against very specific graphical elements and game mechanics and the controls, since those things I stand against for myself ruin any chance at enjoyment, regardless of the things I do like.
I'm not blind to what options I actually have, others aren't seeing the plain fact that I'm destitute and in no position to set up a gaming station, and they assume the basics they absolutely take for granted everyday are even a part of my life. As expected, telling the truth is treated as emo, stupidity, and being a whiny baby, charity seeking, advice seeking, and everyone's solutions do not begin to fit the reality. Solutions that occur to one in less than ten seconds don't apply to decades of struggle, adaptation, and regularly reduced feasibility. If I state I do not have a domicile, the solutions requiring a domicile are premature at best, and a waste of time all around. I f I had what I needed and could take steps toward a solution, I'd be doing it. The problems I am currently facing require solutions I've never found in decades of searching, and my resources are dwindling, including the resources of the mind. There's much less of me to build a future with, and seeking help only made it exponentially worse, I'm afraid. And thanks to Brethren and his ilk, this talk has gone too far, gotten nowhere good, and still only scratches the surface. I can make declarative statements for myself because they are wholly justified and backed up and undeniable on this end, and we both know nothing is better for the attempt to educate.
Al_B on 7/2/2012 at 08:27
Quote Posted by jtr7
I'd need at least one wall socket for one of my old powerstrips, a newer television set or monitor hookup compatible with the cables that come with it or adapters to circumvent incompatible jack types, electricity to run it, a place to hang out and play it and leave it set-up or a the ability to pack it up when I'm done for the session, and I will need to have a mouse and keyboard for the console. It's not simple and certainly not cheap (relative to having no cash to blow at all) unless one already has a home and can pay the bills.
I do agree that it does sound like you have much bigger priorities in life than being able to play the latest games - I wasn't meaning to attack that. From my perspective, I don't see that this situation has really changed in recent years - hardware costs and the complexity required to get games up and running have dropped substantially since games such as Thief, System Shock etc. were created.
Quote Posted by jtr7
Again, even if I had money to blow, there's little in gaming I'm interested in. I'm not disinterested in gaming over money, but content and interface issues I do not care for in the least, which is why I'm aggressive against very specific graphical elements and game mechanics and the controls, since those things I stand against for myself ruin any chance at enjoyment, regardless of the things I do like.
This is a different argument and one that will probably be worth discussing again when more details about Thief 4 are known.
jtr7 on 7/2/2012 at 08:57
I've argued it thoroughly for 7 years, and pretty much stopped when EM's second community manager jeeringly dismissed several of the concerns I have, as they were brought up by various members, whether I participated or not, if he happened to see one of the multiple discussions about each thing, over several months at the Eidos forums. I've asked him if he's using his personal bias to filter out discussions, or if he's putting his biases aside and bringing points up to the devs--not so much in 2011, but at first, at least. The EMPodcasts demonstrate how he takes a question and assumes the attitude behind it, and makes a point to spin it as snark or praise or off-the-wall. He doesn't even try to read the questions correctly, and it makes sense that he doesn't get what people are asking him after doing that. It's not his job to do that, I hope. He's got more responsibility than just a no-one poster on a forum. He's a gaming addict, and because he can play most any game with any interface and control system, aside from tastes and enjoyment, my concerns are trivial to him, but remain brick walls to me, and he is enough like others here who are gamers who play many kinds of games on various systems who think text can bring me around, and other nonsense. It's not an argument to be had. It's been had. I have no doubt T4 will incorporate each thing I can't stand about games that keep me from investing in that entertainment. If they listen to the fans, I really have no doubt, as most fans want all those things and more. It's a handful of members versus hundreds. The community manager may not have even played, let alone liked much, of the trilogy. He hates being asked, and will not answer questions regarding his familiarity with Thief. I've never bothered to ask him myself, though I brought it up thinking aloud.
It doesn't matter how close to the poverty line I am. The details are my own to deal with. Being homeless, but sleeping in my pickup and having a full-time job, yet having health issues since adolescence, that are only getting worse and compounded by new problems, new problems created trying to keep my employment, as I lose more of my coworkers and gain their duties and lose pay--GAH!
Sorry, it's truly safe to say I've wasted the last of my best years giving a damn about an impossible dream for a T4 I can enjoy, even though I never wanted a T4, with LGS dead and all, but spoke up since one is in the works by a group of people responsible for perpetuating a lot of what I hate about gaming, mingled with nice stuff. My fandom was for the community, LGS and the devs, and not just the games, which I've still only ever played through: TDP (twice), Gold (through to Escape!), TMA (twice), TDS (once). All that remains is whether it creates more rifts in the community or rejuvenates it for more than a couple of months.
Brethren on 7/2/2012 at 16:01
Quote Posted by jtr7
And thanks to Brethren and his ilk, this talk has gone too far
That's kind of a crock - you're the one who brought up the "lack of resources" topic in the first place, and then expanded on it extensively. I've been keeping the discussion to more typical and solvable issues such as Steam compatibility and using consoles as an alternative. Granted, I may have been a touch snippy about it, but that's because it's often frustrating trying to get a point across to you.
I can however sympathize with your personal situation - I was unemployed for about 6 months during 2010-2011, so I know at least a little about hard times. That said, I think talking about that here is inappropriate, and my suggestion would be to keep this thread on slightly more "official" topics going forward and keep the personal stuff to PMs.
Al_B on 7/2/2012 at 21:11
Quote Posted by jtr7
Being homeless, but sleeping in my pickup and having a full-time job, yet having health issues since adolescence, that are only getting worse and compounded by new problems, new problems created trying to keep my employment, as I lose more of my coworkers and gain their duties and lose pay--GAH!
Sounds like it could be a very frustrating situation and I don't think there's much I can say (particularly not on an open forum). I sincerely hope things improve despite how they look at the moment.
Quote Posted by jtr7
My fandom was for the community, LGS and the devs, and not just the games, which I've still only ever played through: TDP (twice), Gold (through to Escape!), TMA (twice), TDS (once). All that remains is whether it creates more rifts in the community or rejuvenates it for more than a couple of months.
I've certainly never felt any need to participate in the Eidos forums - the community here was (and to a large extent still is) the reason I'm still around here. I'm still looking forward to the fourth Thief game. Even if its missions aren't worth more than one or two plays as long as they include a platform to allow the scale and scope of creativity that exists with the original games I (optimistically) hope for the best.
R Soul on 18/2/2012 at 23:00
Taffin was on TV a while ago and I watched it, even though the subject didn't interest me, just because of the name :o
Beleg Cúthalion on 19/2/2012 at 15:39
Am I the only one who expected another word after "Pierce Brosnan is Taffin..."?
