SneakyJack on 3/4/2013 at 07:28
Quote Posted by jtr7
Okey doke.
I know you sorta went off the rails after your whole community liaison thing or whatever angle you were trying to swing there to be important fell through but for goodness sake man:
Quote Posted by jtr7
As much as I like about some things, I won't swallow the hype until I see it ain't all smoke and mirrors. Don't buy the game if you can't get a refund, suckers. If you buy the game, they win, no matter how you don't really like a lot of it, force yourself to like it, settle for less, take all you can get, think of it as an FM, enjoy it "for what it is", and other psychological tricks you will play to make it fun, because the truth hurts too much.
You may want to stop taking video games so seriously and personally. It's bad for the blood pressure. And I say this as someone that spent an immense amount of time playing/reviewing/screenshotting Thief/Thief 2/Thief2X and hundreds of fan missions. Vote with your wallet, don't buy the game. But don't sit there acting all king of the mountain and smug while calling people suckers if they decide to give it a try because they can actually see through their seething hatred for anything new just long enough to give it a chance.
I remember there being some weird hatred for The Dark Mod during the time it was being developed and around it's release too because people thought it was some weird sacrilege against the Thief franchise and it actually turned out to be quite fun all things considered. Was it classic Thief? No, but nothing ever will be again. That magic is preserved in sort of a time capsule and it's destined to stay there because the perfect storm of charming antiquated graphics, voice acting personalities and the studio that made it are never going to come together like that again.
For the record I do think they should use Stephen Russell but this whole 'You'll pry thief from my cold dead hands and you're all idiots for not thinking like me' mentality is annoying and puts me off the community as a whole. It's like posting in some weird hivemind echo chamber where you're run out of town with pitchforks if you don't think it's the right course of action to start a petition to change a game that's already so far into development it probably wouldn't be changed even if they suddenly decided they wanted to.
I only single you out because while reading the threads you jump out as particularly crazy and willing to turn on people in an instant for not seeing things how you do.
Vae on 3/4/2013 at 07:58
Quote Posted by New Horizon
Ten years ago, I think everyone would have burned down the internet if this happened...yet today everyone is ready to roll over and just give up. If I knew people had my back, I would start something up to try and get them to reconsider.
I'm with you, brother!...:angel:
Quote Posted by New Horizon
It's an excuse. If Stephen came in to loop that dialogue, he would be able to match the physical performance...because that's what professionals do. They saved some money, that's about it.
Of all the things to screw up EM.
As a professional, I can confirm what you say is true...EM has just made a grave mistake by insulting the intelligence of those in the know...This is just another deception in a long string of dubious, misguided behavior.
Quote Posted by jtr7
Delete all the negative posts of a certain flavor, silence the votes and the voices, and then point at what's left and declare it all happy and positive and nuthin' but love, and at worst, resignation and acceptance--TAKE MY MONEY, EM!
:angel:...LET THE TRUTH SHINE CLEAR, BROTHER!...:angel:
Quote Posted by jtr7
Welcome to the last few years, taffers! You've just experienced first-hand what several of us already went through. Now you know where we've been coming from as we sniped at that site.
thiefessa on 3/4/2013 at 08:11
Quote Posted by SneakyJack
I know you sorta went off the rails after your whole community liaison thing or whatever angle you were trying to swing there to be important fell through but for goodness sake man:
This is fantasy. jtr7 was never any kind of official liaison person. All that happened there was that he was considered for the position of moderator. Unfortunately he was not successful.
That's it.
Beleg Cúthalion on 3/4/2013 at 08:28
Quote Posted by Vae
Quote Posted by New Horizon
It's an excuse. If Stephen came in to loop that dialogue, he would be able to match the physical performance...because that's what professionals do. They saved some money, that's about it.
As a professional, I can confirm what you say is true...EM has just made a grave mistake by insulting the intelligence of those in the know...This is just another deception in a long string of dubious, misguided behavior.
They said he couldn't do
his own stunts. You say they're wrong. I've made the experience that even normal people of average age and training cannot do simple Parkour techniques just like that, and how old is Russell? I'm not saying it was impossible to include him otherwise, but this particular argument of EM makes sense to me, even if there might have been alternatives. And on a related note, some people are really getting crazy and irrational here. It's not their opinions per se, but they way and insolence of expression. I'm equally against the whole dumbing down thing and whatever the game industry can be accused of, but it's getting harder now to chose a side if some fans start discrediting themselves in a rather disgusting way.
EM seems to have taken down the interview, by the way, at least there is one (
http://community.eidosmontreal.com/blogs/Out-of-the-Shadows?theme=thief) link that gets immedietaly re-directed when opened. I've taken screenshots and put them together cheaply for the record:
(
http://s7.directupload.net/file/d/3214/f4565bcn_png.htm)
Inline Image:
http://s7.directupload.net/images/130403/temp/f4565bcn.pngdemagogue on 3/4/2013 at 08:36
These quotes from EM should be put up here.
Source: (
http://community.eidosmontreal.com/blog/Out-of-the-Shadows)
Edit: Oh nice ... ninja'd with the same quotes.
Quote:
Jean-Christophe: Yes. And to answer your question directly, the actor playing Garrett needed to be able to perform his own stunts. Garrett's a really athletic guy. We could have pasted Stephen's voice on top of the actions and stunts of someone else, but this wouldn't appear natural. It really wouldn't make any sense to capture the full performance for our other characters, but not for our star.
Steven: We're absolutely huge fans of Stephen's work on the classic Thief games. But when it came down to it, we ultimately realized that holding onto Steven as the voice of Garrett just for the sake of our nostalgia would be like wanting to cast Sean Connery again in the new 007 movies... It's a nice thought, but honestly, it wouldn't make sense for anything else other than nostalgia.
As for my take, this isn't the way I'd think about it, to say the least. The whole voice-acting/stunts thing is odd, never really heard that before and seems to be contradicted by
the entire animation industry. As for the "it's just nostalgia" point... I mean it's a voice, not Sean Connery paragliding off a cliff. It's not like SR's voice is particularly dated in any way, or the new voice is particularly "more trendy" that I can tell.
I
can imagine new players not caring and being fine with it, which is understandable, and I can even understand why they want to appeal to
that audience and not the one more like me, but it still seems a bit gratuitous. I'm not sure the new audience would have cared if it were SR or not... So it just seems odd to me. Not the end of the world IMO, just odd.
Judith on 3/4/2013 at 08:49
The interview is still here: (
http://community.eidosmontreal.com/blogs/Out-of-the-Shadows)
Frankly, I don't know jack about motion-capture process, as you all. But Eidos made a PR mistake with this one. They knew they won't have SR onboard, and that their cutscene workflow requires actors to do all the stuff, why they showed us a rehashed version of old trailer, where none of it is required?
Instead, they should back up that decision with a short example of such cutscene - making of plus final result. If it's really that good, it would probably calm people down.
Actually, there is a valid argument against that decision:
(
http://youtu.be/CKb8OTyqoLk)
Work of two women and model based on a third one.
Beleg Cúthalion on 3/4/2013 at 09:02
I always get re-directed when opening that interview (Win7, IE 9). Hm...
Hamadriyad on 3/4/2013 at 09:12
Quote Posted by demagogue
These quotes from EM should be put up here.
Source: (
http://community.eidosmontreal.com/blog/Out-of-the-Shadows)
Edit: Oh nice ... ninja'd with the same quotes.
As for my take, this isn't the way I'd think about it, to say the least. The whole voice-acting/stunts thing is odd, never really heard that before and seems to be contradicted by
the entire animation industry. As for the "it's just nostalgia" point... I mean it's a voice, not Sean Connery paragliding off a cliff. It's not like SR's voice is particularly dated in any way, or the new voice is particularly "more trendy" that I can tell.
I
can imagine new players not caring and being fine with it, which is understandable, and I can even understand why they want to appeal to
that audience and not the one more like me, but it still seems a bit gratuitous. I'm not sure the new audience would have cared if it were SR or not... So it just seems odd to me. Not the end of the world IMO, just odd.
Odd, very odd. I don't know about mocap, but they sacrificed a perfect voice every fan wants for the sake of a perfection that nobody wants.
jtr7 on 3/4/2013 at 09:21
Character and depth over aesthetics and 3rd-Person considerations! Narrative over pictures!
I'm not sure why some people continue to think anyone's impressed with these posts that are flipping people off and handing EM their money with a big grin. I find that odder still. Money is no object for a master thief, I guess.
They already lost me as a customer in 2010, and I switched personal goals. "You've changed", she said. Yeah, my dreams were crushed. Fears I kept to myself out of cautious optimism had no reason to be kept in check. Personal "betrayals" and slammed doors by three individuals told me all I needed to know. Optimism can't fix what's been broken. All EM can do is lessen the final blow and leave room for hope.
Posting derisive posts that one element is all the outcry is over is grossly inaccurate, when it's dozens of significant things compiled and compounded, within and without the game, through interviews, interactions, and media leaks, since 2008, all getting focused into one hot point.
jay pettitt on 3/4/2013 at 09:43
It'd be news to any director of moving images that you can't stick a different voice on a body or have more than one actor play a role and switch between them. There are ample opportunities - cuts to close ups of faces and so on to do the dirty work. Film is the art of faking it for camera.
Live capture of audio on motion captures sets is the latest shiny new toy. I'm sure it's very shiny indeed, but there are other techniques too - and technology is supposed to serve the creative endeavour, not the other way around. Jay suspects that EM has put the cart before the horse. Jay naturally wonders what other things EM will get back to front.
