jtr7 on 6/4/2013 at 06:18
I'm not saying a single black & white thing, and I've not thrown the baby out with the bathwater. I haven't even gone as far as at least five others have against T4. I still have more hope than others who don't yet aren't getting attacked. Hmmm...
I won't be able to play T4, and I've stated why. I fear more for the forums. And my fears have already come true but far worse than I imagined, and for reasons I couldn't predict, as well as those that are typical and normal.
Goldmoon Dawn on 6/4/2013 at 06:19
Quote Posted by Vae
Renz, I'm still waiting for the reference where jtr7 said "Thief 4 is going to be exactly like Assassin's Creed".Granted, his copy of the internet rulebook of debate is somewhat outdated, and missing a few pages, but hey!
"The beast is dead! Come on now, isnt this a happy scene?" (from wizardry viii)
jtr7 on 6/4/2013 at 06:21
That's been replaced with "They stab it with their steely knives, but they just. can't. kill. the beast!"--Except, you know, not so OLD.
Goldmoon Dawn on 6/4/2013 at 06:22
The guy just never dries up. :cheeky:
Renzatic on 6/4/2013 at 06:36
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
I love you Renzatic!!! (in a friend way of course) :p
Send chocolates anyway. :mad:
Quote Posted by Vae
Renz, I'm still waiting for the reference where jtr7 said "Thief 4 is going to be exactly like Assassin's Creed".
1 page back, including his posts in the parkour thread. He didn't say
exactly, that's hyperbole on my part. But he did say a lot, and on that, both he and you are very, very wrong.
Everything I've seen only shows that it's superficially similar to AC. As in you're a sneaky guy running around on top of rooftops. Beyond that, the two almost have nothing in common.
If anything, Thief 4 (I dunno why I quit calling it New Thief, probably cuz T4 is easier type) is more like DX:HR. The takedown animations, love em or hate em, are more a direct lift from that game, as are the wall leans and all that other good stuff. This is more EMs style, and it makes sense that it'd take a bit more from their previous game than from another one entirely.
See, AC is a very automatic game. It's like the cel shaded Prince of Persia game in a way. It's one of the reasons why I don't like it all that much. Thief 4 isn't going to take that much control away from the player. The takedown animations do stop the game, but only to show the overly long animations that have been given a little too much flair. They won't break the game at all, about the worst they'll do is get a little old after awhile.
The running around on rooftop scenes seems to be at least 95% player controlled. You jump yourself rather than reaching an edge (unless you're doing that swoop thing, which I'm not too sure how it works yet), you use your tools to get around, you aim and climb the rope arrows and use
THE CLAW yourself (which sounds like they'll be one of the few times the switches to 3rd person).
The level design, as per the RPS article, seems to be built more around T2's level of complexity. It's not open scenery and 90% rooftops like AC.
So no, it's nothing at all like Assassin's Creed. To me, it sounds more like Thief mixed with DX:HR. That doesn't seem like a bad at all.
jtr7 on 6/4/2013 at 06:43
A man at the precipice of wisdom has said (I paraphrase):
"It feels like almost all the hardcore fans are writing this game off too easily with current limited information." ~Name withheld to protect the innocent!
Note how this person has bothered to notice that more than one fan has a problem, significantly more, before this person gets to the concerning part.
The information we have been given by EM themselves, as well as through several hands-on journalists who have overlapping experiences they've shared (the personal stuff that only one or two have said are less noteworthy, but can still be dogeared in case it comes up again), can fill a couple of pages of a book. The information in there contains several lines of note that are very concerning, and lots of lines are not a problem, or are expected anyway.
Again, the peanut allergy analogy--the normally-benign peanut oil hits the allergic person before they know what it is, and will soon know just enough to take action. They will not take a bite if they know it's in there, and if they do take a bite before knowing it's there, they will know it's a problem without having to consume the whole meal! It's natural and INVOLUNTARY, and demands quick action. I look and see, I listen and hear, and I question it until I get answers from the cook, not from other people eating on it! It's my analogy, not yours. ;) Answer the questions, EM, and we will make our mind up informed and have greater respect for you for being up front. Hide the truth and we'll know you are doing just that. You don't want us filling in the blanks with made-up taff, right?
Here's a non-analogy used as one: You know how some people look at a word, sentence, paragraph, and the grammatical errors just jump out at them? Some of them take that curse and turn it into a profession, as a copy editor! The brain just does it for them unconsciously, involuntarily. Most others will never get a job as a professional proof-reader, and they have to struggle to read sloppy writing all over the place. It's natural and normal. You know how some people love music but can't find the beat, no matter how everyone tries to help them, and some of them try and take music classes or learn to play an instrument? You know how some people never really have what it takes to play sports even at a basic level, even though they try and love hanging out with friends playing catch or batting rocks with their beat-up bats? You know how some people really are most comfortable with mouse & keyboard, or WASD controls, or would rather plug an XBox controller into their PC? Normal!
Embrace Mudita, shove the Schadenfreude back into the Abysmal Abyss!
Goldmoon Dawn on 6/4/2013 at 06:57
Quote Posted by Renzatic
Send chocolates anyway. :mad:
:cheeky: Yes sir, the check is in the mail. (big trouble in little china)
Quote Posted by Renzatic
The takedown animations do stop the game, but only to show the overly long animations that have been given a little too much flair. They won't break the game at all, about the worst they'll do is get a little old after awhile.
Hey, I read a whole post of yours for the first time in a thread or two! :p This part right here got me thinking. Especially that last part, about it getting old after a while. You would have to be in quite a few combats for it to get old in classic Thief, and if it doesnt take many combats for the "flair" to stale out *god forbid*, well, why all the money spent on the "action" and cinematics. When I think about a Thief game, *cough*, I think that if I find myself in combat, Ive done something wrong. lol Thief is about gameplay first and foremost. If kids that play Thief IV like an action game use focus points to conquer thine foes, what would happen if say, the focus points ran out at some point, hopefully quickly, and then the player is left to face the rest of the Mission without superpowers. Then it plays out "like old Thief" (as best as it surely feebily will be able to) where you must actually sneak or hopefully die. Of course this could be mastered too at some point, on and on. I do believe, that I heard someone make mention, prolly on these here fora, that they were intending on doing this. Wait a minute... why do I have flashbacks of the 3rd person view Deadly Shadow debacle every time I think of a (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141200&p=2177780&viewfull=1#post2177780) new Thief game?! Once that happens, all imagination and immersion in my memories is lost, it almost hurts. Oh noes ! In the name of The Builder, I pray that the stars have aligned for this new team of ours.
:ebil:
Vae on 6/4/2013 at 07:02
Quote Posted by Renzatic
To me, it sounds more like Thief mixed with DX:HR. That doesn't seem like a bad at all.
I think the key word to understand here is "elements"...In truth, there will likely be elements of both AC and DX:HR in NuThief...The parkour element is certainly related to AC and not DX:HR, the 3rd-person takedowns could very well be a crossover between the two, and of course the assassin appearance is surely reminiscent of AC, as well.
Yet, whether it's more like an DX:HR game or an AC game, one thing's for sure...
It doesn't sound like it's going to be a THIEF game.jtr7 on 6/4/2013 at 07:08
More THIEF in Thief 4! More world-building and interaction, not just bigger maps with more objects! No hand-holding, dammit! No walls and crates built to match the player character's dimensions, all over the place!
skacky on 6/4/2013 at 07:23
One thing I disliked a lot in DX:HR was that the level design felt very artificial because of the mechanics. Let me explain. When you wanted to use stealth, the easier method was to use the cover system and the fast switch between covers so you could move almost undetected. The thing is, these covers acted like very artificial set pieces that you could find in practically every area in the game. This is exactly the same problem I'm having with games like Bioshock Infinite where every arena is made of set pieces that you find everywhere and you instantly recognize. The "swoop" mechanic, that allows Garrett to quickly move from dark areas to dark areas (at least it's presented like this) seems to behave in a very similar fashion, except it's not a cover system. What I truly enjoyed about old 3D games and their level design is that they felt very authentic, unique and organic. Every encounter was different because such mechanics did not exist, and the level design was not made to cater to them. I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing; Quake had a huge emphasis on verticality and this was a true game mechanic, but it did not feel that artificial to me, and it still doesn't today. Just to be clear, I'm not talking about "natural" dark corners the player will immediately seek, these are obviously a game mechanic, and thank God they are.
What I'm saying is that levels in Thief flowed very naturally, and that it would be sad to see obvious set pieces used over and over again because of the game mechanics.
