Renzatic on 6/4/2013 at 07:29
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
Hey, I read a whole post of yours for the first time in a thread or two! :p This part right here got me thinking. Especially that last part, about it getting old after a while. You would have to be in quite a few combats for it to get old in classic Thief, and if it doesnt take many combats for the "flair" to stale out *god forbid*, well, why all the money spent on the "action" and cinematics. When I think about a Thief game, *cough*, I think that if I find myself in combat, Ive done something wrong. lol Thief is about gameplay first and foremost. If kids that play Thief IV like an action game use focus points to conquer thine foes, what would happen if say, the focus points ran out at some point, hopefully quickly, and then the player is left to face the rest of the Mission without superpowers. Then it plays out "like old Thief" (as best as it surely feebily will be able to) where you must actually sneak or hopefully die. Of course this could be mastered too at some point, on and on. I do believe, that I heard someone make mention, prolly on these here fora, that they were intending on doing this. Wait a minute... why do I have flashbacks of the 3rd person view Deadly Shadow debacle every time I think of a (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141200&p=2177780&viewfull=1#post2177780) new Thief game?! Once that happens, all imagination and immersion in my memories is lost, it almost hurts. Oh noes !
The way it sounds combat is an option (and it's always been an option in every Thief), but it won't be the easy option. It's the option you take when you have no other choice. So if the devs have been telling us the truth, that much at least will be up to your standards.
It's like what I said to Springheel. It all depends on how easy the combat is. If you can spam focus chain attacks and whip around like a ballerina hopped up on angel dust, then EM dropped the ball. Having more options in a fight doesn't necessarily mean the game has focused mainly on fighting now.
...and they have said that even the most aggressive players have to rely on stealth and shadows, so there is a good bit hope there. We just have to wait and see how it actually plays out.
Quote:
In the name of The Builder, I pray that the stars have aligned for this new team of ours.
Same here, man. Same here.
Quote Posted by Vae
I think the key word to understand here is "elements"...In truth, there will likely be elements of both AC and DX:HR in NuThief...The parkour element is certainly related to AC and not DX:HR, the 3rd-person takedowns could very well be a crossover between the two, and of course the assassin appearance is surely reminiscent of AC, as well.
Yet, whether it's more like an DX:HR game or an AC game, one thing's for sure...It doesn't sound like it's going to be a THIEF game.
If I had to pick a third game Thief 4 draws inspiration from, it'd be Mirrors Edge. I haven't played ME, but from the screenshots, the rooftop sections look quite a bit like it.
AC? I really don't see much of it in T4. Almost nothing really. Garrett's got the cloak now, but he looks more like a souped up version of Garrett from T3 than he does the characters from AC.
Overall, it sounds like a Thief game with more added. How well these new parts gel with the old Thief style is the big question for me.
Anyway, I'm up way later than I should be, and I'm going to bed. Later yall. :P
Goldmoon Dawn on 6/4/2013 at 08:26
Quote Posted by Renzatic
It's like what I said to Springheel. It all depends on how easy the combat is. If you can spam focus chain attacks and whip around like a ballerina hopped up on angel dust, then EM dropped the ball. Having more options in a fight doesn't necessarily mean the game has focused mainly on fighting now.
Im just not a links guy like jtr is, but I know I heard/read here or podcast maybe that Focus would run out after so many uses so you had to learn to use it wisely... I wish someone could verify that. It was as clear as day. Didnt any of you taffers listen to the damn podcasts?!?!
jtr7 on 6/4/2013 at 08:30
Focus comes at a cost, from the devs themselves, but I haven't laid eyes on the article that says "it can't be recharged." That intrigues me, and makes me feel better about Focus now that it's in the game already, while I hate that it was even implemented and all the time spent doing that and playtesting and debugging and it's not even necessary. I still am waiting to find out if there will be parts of the game that Focus was obviously made to deal with, while letting the player just not use it. I know it's been speculated that it'll be mana-like and/or per mission not across the game, once Garrett acquires it.
(
http://community.eidosmontreal.com/blogs/A-Focus-on-Focus)
It says nothing about how it costs, and how it's recharged if at all. I would love it if it cannot be recharged and it must be budgeted out across the whole game. People who squander it early will make things harder for themselves later, instead of using the first missions to train themselves up and get used to not needing it, let alone relying on it. Having a panic button should be embarrassing to taffers who really don't struggle so much being a master thief.
Vae on 6/4/2013 at 08:37
"Can you tell us how the focus system works?
Focus is something that you have to manage, that you have to accumulate. The player will have to choose when the best time is to take advantage of Garrett's Focus, as he has many different ways and abilities that Focus can be used. It's completely up to the player to decide and manage how Focus is used in the game."Accumulation is a form of recharging, in this given context.
Quote Posted by Renzatic
If I had to pick a third game Thief 4 draws inspiration from, it'd be Mirrors Edge. I haven't played ME, but from the screenshots, the rooftop sections look quite a bit like it.
You could be right...NuThief could very well turn out to be derivative hodgepodge of various modern games.
skacky on 6/4/2013 at 08:37
I've read somewhere that it's recharged when you steal loot, but I don't remember where I read that. It's completely silly, but you never know.
jtr7 on 6/4/2013 at 08:40
Yeah, getting to the bottom of it will help. That sounds like an XP thing.
Vae on 6/4/2013 at 08:40
Quote Posted by skacky
I've read somewhere that it's recharged when you steal loot...
Thank you for hurting me, skacky.
Yes, NuGarrett's lust for gold fuels his paranormal superpowers...:erm:
Tomi on 6/4/2013 at 11:14
Quote Posted by jtr7
It's not about Thief[4] at all, is it, Tomi? It's all about disagreeing, not matter what, right? The truth speaks for itself. The devs and their work speak for themselves, and when misinterpreted by some, they've released corrective statements--or jeering wiseassery, hahaha!
I don't particularly enjoy arguing on the internet, so I would rather keep the conversation civilised and at the topic in hand (Thief 4). And so far I don't think that this has turned too nasty, but I also think that this conversation is going nowhere at the moment.
However, I do find it a bit offensive that you accuse me of some personal attacks against you, when I only want to stand behind my own opinions as much as you want. I
can't even be right in this conversation, some of my opinions can and
will be changed as we get more information, and who knows, perhaps the game will indeed look a lot like AC when we see the first gameplay videos - and at that point I will have to wipe a little tear from my eye as well. But so far nothing significant that
I have seen reminds me of AC, so I would genuinely like to hear what elements of AC
you see in the new Thief. Perhaps there's something that I've missed, and hearing your point of view would help me open my eyes, or the other way around.
Isn't that what conversations/arguments are all about, exchanging opinions and stuff? But instead of just simply sharing your opinion with me and backing your
main argument here, you give me some vague "the Truth is out there" kind of an answer. When I ask you to explain because I don't understand your point of view, you call me lazy and that the Truth has been right in front of my eyes all the time, but that I just can't see it. (And I still can't, really.) I don't find that very polite.
So it's not like I'm desperately trying to win some internet argument just for the sake of it, because there's nothing to win. I do apologise if you've found something that I've posted insulting - that hasn't been my intention, I would rather discuss the game than insult any fellow Thief fans in here. Anyway, since I still don't know your real thoughts on this, I'll have to assume that yours are somewhat similar to what Vae posted before, so I'll comment on those instead:
Quote Posted by Vae
"Acrobatics isn't Garrett!"Of course not...That would be something one would see in an AC game.
This is something that I have to disagree with. Climbing up and down ropes, mantling high walls at ease, and jumping long distances from one rooftop to another isn't acrobatics? Garrett has always been agile and acrobatic, and if he simply looks cool while doing some of these moves this time, I don't find that to be a bad thing at all. Of course, if "acrobatics" in this case means Prince of Persia style wall-running or other over-the-top moves, then yes, I totally agree - I don't want to see that sort of stuff in Thief either. Instead, they could learn a thing or two from Mirror's Edge. :)
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"3rd-person pre-determined takedowns aren't Thief! Garrett visibly showing off isn't Thief!"Not THIEF, indeed...Sounds more like an AC game.
I agree about the takedowns, but if they're
really used sparsely as the devs have claimed, it might not be that bad. I too thought of AC when I heard about the takedowns, but takedowns exist in a lot of games so it's not exactly exclusive to AC either. And if the fighting will happen from first person most of the time (?), it won't be the same anyway, because AC is played in third person all the time.
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"Totally different, and yet they've built AC into Thief[4]"Meaning, not exactly like Assassin's Creed, but some elements of AC look to be included in NuThief.
To me, "building AC
into Thief 4" means that the core elements of AC will be there (or at least something more than just little details), but I may have misinterpreted that, English not being my native language and all. But apart from some little details (and those takedowns, in a way) I can't see much AC in T4. And hopefully it'll stay that way for the most part. ;)
Quote:
"...and AC's assassins into Garrett"Yes, his assassin's appearance seems reminiscent of AC.
I can see a little resemblance between Garrett in the trailer and the protagonist from AC, yeah, but I don't know if it's even intentional. I think it's Garrett's new clothes and not Garrett himself that looks like something from AC. I suppose the ordinary "cool looking mystery guy" look that they've aimed at... Not very original, I give you that. But even if there are similarities in the appearance, that doesn't instantly make Garrett an
assassin too - the devs have stated that the game can be completed without killing anyone.
Quote:
"...and turned the rulers and nobility into his targets in an AC fashion..."This is an extrapolation based on an analysis of current evidence, which will likely turn out to be true.
"...with the big new game mechanic and objective of prominent stealing."Again, this is an extrapolation based on an analysis of current evidence, which will likely turn out to be true.
Rulers and nobility as targets... Prominent stealing... Perhaps I don't get what you're trying to say here, but don't these apply to all Thief games? Garrett has always stolen stuff from lords and nobles and other remarkable people in outrageous ways. And in Thief Garrett's "targets" are people he's indeed
stealing things from, not people that he's going to assassinate.
Quote:
Yes, it seems reasonable to conclude that NuThief will includes game design elements that were inspired from Assassin's Creed, given the information received, so far.
Game design elements that were
inspired by AC, sure, that doesn't sound too far-fetched. But personally I don't believe that AC has been their main inspiration (or a very significant inspiration at all) or anything.
Tomi on 6/4/2013 at 11:36
Alright... so all my posts (that I've spent a rather long time typing, by the way) with my own honest opinions and my own explanations with them are just some "game"? That's not only a stupid accusation, I also find that pretty damn rude.
I ask you a very simple question that you could give an equally simple answer to, but no. Again you give me a very vague "answer", this time a link with a hundred articles, how's that supposed to be helpful? I've read most of them already, but I still don't know what your own thoughts on this are and why exactly you feel that Thief is in danger of becoming an AC game. Haven't you got your own opinions on anything? For some reason you can't seem to be able to answer that, and I really don't know why that is, but oh well.
