Thief Game Mechanic Questions: What you want to know about them

TheGrimSmile on 18/1/2009 at 18:08

Well, I don't know if people are as curios as I am about Thief Gameplay mechanics, but I have three questions that I have been wondering about. Sorry if these questions seems irrelivent or can't be answered, I'm just curious...

First: What makes AI able to distinguish between water they can and cannot walk in? Spiders are easy to lure into water, and Guards can be with enough prodding, but how does the AI know when to step in water and when not to? (For example, a Guard running over a fountian but not over a... water filled hole...) Or where in water they can go? (For example, when scared servants in the first mission stand in the sink)

Next: What exactly does a noise have to be for an AI to hear it? Why is it that, with the two guards in Lord Bafford's Manor (the ones that split up after their conversation) I walk with cluncking feet behind one and he won't hear me, yet I had a problem for a bit that if I knocked out one while the other was too close, he would come search for me.

Last: How, in the first mission, is the servant in the bed triggered to follow you in karate postition if you wake him up and then run to the corner versus the standard reaction of running away?

The last one is the one I'm most curious about. Hope someone else has some question about gameplay mechanics...

*Edit* Oh yeah, another question; I know that guards have three standard levels of alert (shrug it off, searching, or beating you up), but I have to wonder if there are two different searching modes. Is there a difference between when a guard begins searching for you because he heard a loud noise or saw a glimpse of Garrett and when he is searching for you when he has discovered a body or has chased Garrett? It seems to me that, in the latter scenario, guards tend to search longer and have slightly different comments, but that may just be me. Can anyone clear this up for me? Also, how is the difference made between the AIs' level of alert before he has encountered Garrett and then after he has gone to any higher alert level? I mean how, after maybe hearing something or searching, when a guard continues patrolling, he seems more likely to hear and respond to sound and vision disruptions and cannot be suprised.

Also, does this alert system work the same for all of the AIs, apart from guards? Do undead and beast AIs have different systems?

Snakebite on 18/1/2009 at 18:41

About the searching mode of the guards I think there are different states when they hear a suspicious noise and when they found out a corpse/unconscious body. In the first one they just look for a short period of time. In the second they come straight towards you if you are present, but even in the shadows. Both states are blackjackable. I'm not sure about this but the first one can be knocked out from the front too by leaning forward; the second one can not be blackjacked. (this is about T1/T2 guards) (T3 guards are a lot different; they seem smarter and more realistic)

sNeaksieGarrett on 18/1/2009 at 22:26

Are you asking these questions from a technical standpoint, or as a observational discussion which can be interpreted as we want to?

If the former, this thread seems more appropriate for the editor's guild, but these sort of questions could get you some technical gobbleygook.

I don't know how the things work (a guru regarding dromed could probably explain everything well for you) really, but I can try to answer these questions:

Quote Posted by TheGrimSmile

Next: What exactly does a noise have to be for an AI to hear it? Why is it that, with the two guards in Lord Bafford's Manor (the ones that split up after their conversation) I walk with cluncking feet behind one and he won't hear me, yet I had a problem for a bit that if I knocked out one while the other was too close, he would come search for me.

Last: How, in the first mission, is the servant in the bed triggered to follow you in karate postition if you wake him up and then run to the corner versus the standard reaction of running away?

The "next" answer: I don't know how the feet work exactly, but I know it has something to do with how sounds are interpreted on different surfaces. Looking Glass Studios must have just lowered (or maybe it was a technical limitation of the time?) the response of walking on brick versus walking on tile. I guess it was just something LGS chose to do. To me, it makes sense, because that would make the game much harder if walking behind a guard triggers them hearing you on brick. But obviously, if you jump on said brick, they will definately hear you. The blackjack could be explained from a logical perspective that it was a disturbance out of the ordinary for the guard, and since it was close by, the guard decided to search. This is basically just some speculation, as I obviously couldn't tell you why or how LGS implemented certain things the way they did.

Edit: I tested knocking out the "smart guard" actor for the conversation you are referring to, and the "dumb guard" didn't start searching for me. Hmm, that's interesting. I wonder if this is another difference between Thief Gold and TDP.

The "last" answer: This was a bug in the original dark project, as I understand it. That same sleeping servant when awoken in Thief Gold does not do this anymore. Somehow in the coding of that servant, when alerted he does "the karate thing" in the original DP. I don't think it was intended for him to do that, as the standard thing for servants to do is to run for help. I could be wrong though, maybe they did do it on purpose, but it seems rather goofy. Maybe someone just had a sense of humor?:p Nah, it seems that it was a bug sense it was fixed in Thief Gold.

jtr7 on 18/1/2009 at 23:09

The AIs' sensitivity can be adjusted, so some guards, even un-alerted, can be very difficult to sneak by, if the sensitivity has been increased for it. Also, some AI will become somewhat alerted by your activity in another room, and you won't even know it happened, except a bit later when you move on and find they are sensitive.

Check out the Ultimate Difficulty Mod.
For some insight: (http://www.thief-thecircle.com/media/patches/UltimateDifficulty1.3_readme.txt)

sNeaksieGarrett on 18/1/2009 at 23:19

That's a good point jtr7. I wasn't thinking strait. Forgot about ultimate difficulty mod, or the potentiality of FMs (or even in some OMs?) having altered sensitivity. The way to know regarding the two guards in question then, is to check dromed and see if the sensitivity on them was increased.

ShadowSneaker on 19/1/2009 at 00:07

Regarding the first question, I don't know about T1/2 but in DS you have a thing called the Navigation Mesh which is like a web that covers the floor and tells the AI where they can walk. If you have an area that you don't want an AI to go, you create a Navmesh Subtraction Volume which cuts out the Navmesh so they can't go there.

SS