Comrade on 23/1/2014 at 19:53
Spoilers below for those who haven't played Thief Gold (Hey, you never know)
Hey, I was hoping you guys can help me figure out what is causing this issue I'm having in Cragscleft Prison. I'm at the beginning of the Prison part of the level where two guards are discussing Cutty's wailing from the "justice" he received.
After their brief discussion, one of them goes off into his patrol routine while the other remains in the small room. At this point is where I eventually pick pocket the both of them. Getting the guard who walks off is a cinch, but getting to the guard in the room requires you to move against the wall slowly to approach unnoticed.
This guard in the room usually turns ever so slightly to allow the player to do so if they're careful but I noticed this isn't happening in my current playthrough and the guard doesn't move at all. He just continues to remain looking forward. This wouldn't be an issue if it were simply a case of me just wanting to advance through the rest of the level because it is easy to slip away and continue on, but what this does complicate is the ability to pick pocket the keys from him.
I'm usually very compulsive with my approach to stealth and prefer strict stipulations for completion, and usually achieve the bonus objectives of pick pocketing. Yet for some odd reason the guard doesn't turn and seems to be bugged. When I play off a fresh installation of TG with no mods/patches, he does stick to his normal movement of turning ever slightly but in this playthrough it isn't happening. I'm running Thief with TFix 1.18d and Gecko's HD Mod and made a video for the sake of clarity. If memory serves me correctly, there are some issues in Cragscleft later on at some point (first time replaying this game in years) but I never had an issue with this particular guard like I do now. Any help would be appreciated.
[video=youtube;fE7p6H2tnPk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE7p6H2tnPk[/video]
klatremus on 23/1/2014 at 20:54
That is indeed strange. He definitely turned in the original version. Can you take them during the conversation and get away clean?
Comrade on 23/1/2014 at 21:03
Quote Posted by klatremus
That is indeed strange. He definitely turned in the original version. Can you take them during the conversation and get away clean?
Hey, Klatremus. Enjoy the site, supports my playstyle. ;)
Yeah, I first tried using the first guard to block the line of sight of the window guard and snatch both keys but the window guard freezes conversation by the time I'm at the foot of the stairs below and then runs out the room while the other guard is still in mid discussion.
The still discussing guard eventually turns and engages combat but I notice this is all a bit wonky in execution, further convincing me that something is definitely wrong here.
Edit: Uninstalled TG, going to re-install with TFix 1.18c (instead of 1.18d) and HD Mod 0.9.1. Hopefully this was a case of me screwing up or something. Though that is merely wishful thinking on my part.
voodoo47 on 23/1/2014 at 21:47
there are no settings on that guard that would make him turn, so if he did in olddark, it must have been some sort of random occurrence or a bug.
klatremus on 23/1/2014 at 21:57
Yeah I meant to say he is turned towards the left (not directly out the window) in olddark, not that he makes a turn per se. If he has no turn settings then I assume he faces left during the conversation also in olddark. That's easy enough to find out.
Edit: Yeah he faces a different direction in olddark. Check out (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2qoa_flRKQ&list=PL44705942C3CD1AA6) Travis' video around the 28 minute mark.
voodoo47 on 23/1/2014 at 22:18
yeah, that definitely looks like a bug. there is no sane reason why he should be turned like that.
I could manually reposition him to emulate the original behavior, but I don't think I want to steer TFix this way. as mentioned in the notes, NewDark/TFix will make some old exploits not work. players will have to live with it.
TheDuriel on 23/1/2014 at 22:27
didnt newdark fix a bug where npc's would face north and not turn after loading the mission?
i dont remember him facing left in olddark (1.0 and 1.18)
klatremus on 23/1/2014 at 22:55
I just checked and all NewDark versions (with or without HDMod) have both guards facing each other, and like you said voodoo47, that seems to be the intended direction. All OldDark versions have both guards facing left, with the one behind the window remaining in that direction once the conversation is done.
In NewDark I managed to retrieve both keys during the conversation, but got caught by the guard behind the window when trying to leave. I think this key is unreachable in NewDark with the current settings, without getting caught that is.
Comrade on 23/1/2014 at 22:58
Question is... if this is indeed intended behavior than why would Pockets Picked be an end level statistic when one technically would never be able to pick pocket this particular guard?
The Pick Pockets stat from what I remember playing years back eventually ends up at 11 out of 12 due to an unrelated bug if I recall (unless that has since been fixed), skipping this particular guard would only bring me to 10 out of 12 at the end. It just seems wrong.
I think there must have been some original point of opportunity for the player to do so, but at the moment with my playthrough it is simply not possible and remain undetected and I never had this issue years back.
voodoo47 on 23/1/2014 at 22:59
it's still pickable (just tried), but not without the hammerite going into search mode. remember, ghost is a self-imposed restriction, no such thing was ever intended by the orig map creators.
things like not being able to pick all pockets, collect all loot or find all secrets are not all that uncommon - there are a lot of bugs still left in the thief levels.
