CandyStick on 28/1/2008 at 01:08
Being a big System Shock fan, I gave the game a good try, but I just can't get in to it. Some games age better than others I guess, and in case of Thief, the age hasen't been kind. And I am not talking about graphics, problem to me seems to be that the gameplay depends a lot on the technology of the time (A.I in this case), rather than being strong on it's own, like System Shock 2 for example. The guard A.I just doesn't feel real enough and can be so easily manipulated that I always have this "I am playing a game feeling", as such I really don't feel immersed, and more often than not, all the sneaking around feels like pointles role-play exercise. I do get the "Oh man, if I played this a few years ago, it would have been amazing" thought all the time as well, it's just too bad I didn't. Anyway, just figured I'd share my thoughts, I got as far as the level where Gerret gets those fancy lock-picks, and I will probably try to continue eventually. Fell free to flame me for not "getting it" if you guys want, but I would rather if this became a discussion about relationship between techonology and gameplay, and if I am right or wrong about my conclusion about Thief being out dated because of it's A.I.
And for the record, I defenitly plan on getting back to the game eventually, as I did have fun at many points.
Undead Gamer on 28/1/2008 at 01:15
Graphics wise it is but still has the charm which people still come back to it and even for Thief 2
jtr7 on 28/1/2008 at 01:26
Sounds like a very repectable reaction, to me. The fact that enough pleasurable qualities reached you through the disappointing ones is still a testament to the game. Playing a game for the first time after so many games have been made, that built upon one or two of its ground-breaking aspects, will typically cause a numbing effect, yet it's cool to hear that you were able to have a sense of its importance in its day.
CandyStick on 28/1/2008 at 01:27
Oh, it defenitly has charm ,Garrett is cool, and the setting/story is very interesting, with some of the best cut scenes I've seen in any game.
Huckeye on 28/1/2008 at 01:29
I think its a fair statement to say that a 10 year old game is outdated.
For me the problem is that I can't force myself to forget anything. I can run and jump through the place because after playing the game a few dozen times its burned into my brain. So it seems very easy and predictable to me at this point. However, I see newer games today that fall further back in AI than Thief does. So I still feel like it has some life in it yet. I think charm is a good word for it. I still enjoy it even though I know exactly where everyone is coming from and what will happen next.
If I won the lottery, I'd pay a team to remake Thief on newer tech and randomize the guards, patrol patterns, loot, secrets, and objectives. Maybe The Dark Mod has this potential, not sure. One thing is certain to me... The number of games that can claim the type of fan following Thief has after 10 years is drastically small.
BrokenArts on 28/1/2008 at 01:32
I too can respect what you've said. Its the way you said it, I can agree to it. It is dated, it will for me, have a certain *charm*. The AI are easy to get around, for the most part. I probably won't play gold again, but, the story line will remain with me. Maybe someday I might play gold again, just for kicks.
It is the FM's that has tweaked the AI, made them better, more interesting, more touchy, more real, if you will. They have gotten better with age, at least on the FM scene.
Lovecraftian on 28/1/2008 at 02:05
That's like me with Final Fantasy VII - i played it for the first time last year and couldn't see what the fuss was about. I had grown up with FFVIII and thought it was a far better game.
I agree with what you say about Gold/DP being outdated to some extent, but i never get that feeling with Metal Age. I've played MA through 8+ times and it never becomes dull.
The Magpie on 28/1/2008 at 02:38
Dated? Sure. Outdated? Nah, not as long as the only competitors sharing the gameplay niche with the original Thief are its own sequels. I don't understand what you mean when you say that
Quote Posted by CandyStick
the gameplay depends a lot on the technology of the time (A.I in this case), rather than being strong on it's own, like System Shock 2 for example.
Please specify.
It could well be a case of "You had to be there", of course. When it was launched, The Dark Engine offered an AI experience no other games, including Half-Life, could match. It truly was the state of the art in 98. I believe their seemingly smart conversations and personalities greatly helped camouflage most intellectual shortcomings.
(Heh. Much like RL.)
I have little problem still becoming immersed in Thief Gold, but I suppose I could view the AIs a little differently than you do. I still believe in them. But then I've scarcely played any FPSes at all in recent years. I'm sure they've become smarter.
Besides, Garrett outwitting a few guards is routine. The guards need not necessarily be stupid, it's Garrett who's that good. ;)
I'm curious as to your playing style. Do you play on Expert difficulty? And
you've just started the "Assassins" mission? Do you rely on blackjacking, shooting, distracting, ghosting, what?
If that's the case, I believe you could be in for a little surprise soon. :sly:
The Thief AI was IIRC updated for Thief 2: The Metal Age, BTW. Personally I recommend playing Thief Gold just to get told the story, if nothing else. Then you could try and jump into Thief 2. Which more or less shares the AI part of its engine with SS2, I believe.
--
Larris
ionia23 on 28/1/2008 at 07:13
Eh, I disagree. I think TG/TMA have stood the test of time quite well despite advances in AI/Graphics since then Given, I'd love to see them ported up to the TDS engine, but if wishes were horses.....
Melan on 28/1/2008 at 08:26
I believe Thief1 aged remarkably well in graphics and much of the gameplay; stories are of course not subject to that. The sounds, lighting and the overall ambience are still as perfect as ever - no other game has done it so beautifully (except System Shock 2, of course). I agree on the AI, though: after a while, they are no match for an experienced player. However, much of the game's challenge is in navigating and exploring the environment, and that is still something other games don't have enough of (not even System Shock 2, unfortunately - it's almost all corridors and small rooms).
Candystick, I would like to hear your opinion once you complete the next two "core" missions (The Sword/THC; there is one from Thief Gold after Assassins which I believe isn't so good). :)
