jtr7 on 26/2/2011 at 23:34
Yes! \o/
Blue Sky on 28/2/2011 at 17:07
Quote Posted by Judith
I think that Thief fans would hate that.
This is problem has a broader scope (current gen console audience, etc.), but everything boils down to character abilities vs. player abilities. In Thief
you are Garrett, you open the locks, you climb the ledges, you do all the hard work. The only character ability you're given is perfect hiding in the dark and even so you have to learn to put it in a good use.
In AC you get the set of "I win" buttons, where jumping and climbing is automatic and combat is relatively easy.
I hope Eidos devs will let us become a master thief rather than give us a master thief to control. There's little sense of accomplishment in the latter.
I think this sums up the differences perfectly!
In Thief any skillful acts you do, any skillful movements, any skillful bit of stealth or archery or blackjacking or distracting or anything was down purely to the player and the player's ability.
In AC you hold down spacebar and you can suddenly do amazing parkour, etc. It
looks cool, but you as the player aren't doing it, so it isn't cool.
Jason Moyer on 1/3/2011 at 00:07
If you're going to steal parkour mechanics from a game, for the love of god do it from Mirror's Edge and not Assassin's Creed.
SubJeff on 1/3/2011 at 02:37
Yeah, Thief with a few Mirror's Edge moves would be fine. And if you're going to have the player hands visible during these moves (a la ME) you could actually extend it to a more realistic climbing/mantling model. Assassins Creed had a useful paradigm here - you could climb anything that was "climbable". If you designated objects as "climbable" in Thief you could have more more climbing freedom - like the dynamic climbing that jtr was talking about. It's not as hard to implement as people seem to think.
Yakoob on 2/3/2011 at 23:22
Quote Posted by Too Much Coffee
Here's an idea: have them make Thief IV be more like . . . Thief.
I also enjoyed the Assassin's Creed games. But that doesn't mean I want Thief IV to be like them. I prefer games that are capable of doing their own things without having to "borrow" a bunch of concepts from other games.
Like borrowing concepts from Thief 1?
Captain Spandex on 4/3/2011 at 04:42
It wouldn't hurt to have what 'parkour' mechanics are already present in the series refined a bit. Mantling has never felt... quite 'right'. TDS improved it somewhat, but in some of these levels, your life depends on the mantling mechanic working, and it lets you down (pun intended). Garrett has always felt a little 'stiff'. In all the games. I have to believe a seasoned thief would be a bit smoother. Almost wraithlike in his movements.
I don't want it to be anything like Assassin's Creed, though. There are parallels (pickpocketing mechanics, shadowing couriers, hiding bodies, etc.) but Assassin's Creed is more an action / adventure game. Thief is pure stealth.
...and a much better game.
Blue Sky on 4/3/2011 at 22:59
I've been playing the first Assassin's Creed and I have to say that I don't think there's much resemblence between the two games at all, really.
AC is incredibly linear, one key, and repetitive, though does boast brilliantly designed bustling cities which genuinely are very impressive to move about both by ground level, but also scaling the rooftops.
Yeah, maybe Thief fans should be jealous of the rooftop action! Of course it could never work quite like that in first person.
Bakerman on 7/3/2011 at 02:42
Quote Posted by Blue Sky
Of course it could never work quite like that in first person.
What do you mean?
Blue Sky on 9/3/2011 at 00:24
I don't think you could have the fluidity of leaping up and grabbing tiny cracks and fixtures in walls, moving upwards, sideways, hanging off ledges, inching along, before climbing up, etc, in first person.
I may be wrong, but it would be nigh on impossible to make similar moves.
For a Thief game it would have to be more simplistic so it's more of a maze-like levels you merely jump from ledge to ledge. Which can be brilliant, as seen in Life of the Party! But it's not like Assassin's Creed, which does have very good rooftop stuff. (In my opinion!)
SubJeff on 9/3/2011 at 00:33
I think you could have a good system based on that. To quote myself from another thread:
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Enhanced Climbing/Mantling
If the game is 1st person then the following system would allow for enhanced climbing.
If faced by an object you jump can up to and grip onto but not mantle onto, like a small ledge or the end of a post, you should be able to jump to it and hang on. If there is something further you can pull yourself up to pressing the appropriate lean key (to your left, right or both if it's directly above) would allow you to reach up and hang on that too. This is essentially what happens in Assassins Creed but of course in AC it's all automated. Your hands/arms would be animated in a Mirror's Edge style so you can see where you are going. From any hanging position you may attempt a mantle with the jump key, or a jump to a gripping point if it's too far to reach (mantling takes precedence over jumping so you don't jump off my mistake). Imagine a rock climber leaping from one handhold to another. If we're having climbing claws you could use them to create temporary gripping points in order to climb to places you can't reach/jump to, but they would only allow you to make 2 or 3 moves before it becomes too dangerous to rely on them solely - to implement this I'd give each new point a % chance of failure.
Combine this with rope arrows you can swing on and which drape and you've got a comprehensive climbing system that Thief type explorers would enjoy. It'd work in a ninja game too. I know Garrett isn't a ninja but thievery and climbing go well together.
