xxcoy on 14/2/2008 at 17:54
I think that's a good choice in your case.
Digital Nightfall on 14/2/2008 at 19:33
I think that most games do not have the type of scope or character that Thief has, and are thus unworthy of any type of written work being associated them them. </snob>
In order to continue the conversation (and maybe keep this thread going, which would be nice) here is what I posted to xxcoy.
Quote:
Way back when Thief 1 just came out and TTLG was still young, I and others would do these loose role-playing sessions on the forums. There were many characters and many players. After a little while, five of us decided to get together (it began as two and we sought others to join) and do a private session over email and edit it into a novel, to be released as a serial on the website. Well, we did just that. The novel, Correspondence of Thieves, is still on The Circle to this day.
Time went on. I tried to write a sequel to this in the same way, but most of the group were now too busy with other things, and faded away. I decided to write it myself. After years of writing and attempting to rewrite a second book of the adventures of these characters, I realised I was spending all my time trying to fix the problems with the first book. It was written after all by five people as more of a game than anything else, and as a result was very problematic.
So I could either drop the whole thing, or go back to the original. I contacted all of the original authors and got their permission, and began a rewrite. So the original became a rough draft for the new story, which includes some major changes to the plot and an entirely different third act - which hasn't been written yet. I'm about 2/3rds through with the story now.
xxcoy on 14/2/2008 at 19:51
Five authors.
I think, I still have no idea how big that book is, have I?
Anyway, for I won't ever be able to put TF in the position of trashing the one I wrote plausible without him learning German or me marrying a proffessional translator, I'll do the it the other way round if I find the time and get German readers in the position of trashing yours, DN. :cheeky:
I have to warn you. They are a terrible reading public.
They even might *like* it without any attempt of profiling themselves by tearing it to shreads before reading it.
They're a shame for any thief-fan taking his role seriously.
(Edit: Thx for the link. Got it.)
Digital Nightfall on 14/2/2008 at 21:13
Like I always tell people, if you want an expert proofreader or just someone to tell you your work sucks, find a German. ;)
I can't give an accurate word count right now, as the story is full of editing marks and lots of revisions, but it's at around 240,000 words. :erm:
xxcoy on 14/2/2008 at 21:33
That's ca. 100.000 more than my own one, so I know what I'm dealing with.
But that's what you can expect if you have five writers working together, I guess. It at least isn't as big as I was in fear of. Maybe I'll ask some friends for a little help.
Quote:
I have to warn you. They are a terrible reading public.
They even might *like* it without any attempt of profiling themselves by tearing it to shreads before reading it.
They're a shame for any thief-fan taking his role seriously.
Quote:
...or just someone to tell you your work sucks, find a German.
What I wanted to point out was the contrairy, DN.
I have a really great readership in Germany, I can't complain. Some of them may be experts if it comes to accuracy, but there wasn't any unfair criticism for any story I ever wrote so far - or for those of other authors I host on my website.
They simply appreciate it.
Digital Nightfall on 14/2/2008 at 21:43
That's a relief. :)
But of course much of the most important feedback I've gotten on any topic is for the person to just tell me it's bad and be honest about it. A critic who is capable of doing that, while at the same time being constructive and detailed in their explanations of why, is a very valuable person - a true privilege to work with. I get discouraged and unhappy with the feedback just like anyone else, but if I let it sit and don't forget about it, I can come back to the work when the feelings have gone away and use the harsh feedback to improve my work.
It is like at my school; when students are new, they want kind teachers who pat their backs. By the time they are in their third year, the most popular teachers are the ones who are the most harsh in their feedback. Everyone learns the hard way how damaging it can be to have someone who refuses to be honest and tell you what your problems are.
So feedback from your friends who have helped you would be an honor. :)
xxcoy on 15/2/2008 at 02:49
I didn't say there was no criticism. It only was constructive mainly.
I'll ask around.
jtr7 on 15/2/2008 at 06:21
So yeah, I was thinking upon the idea that the characters in the story seem more real to the writer because the writer knows far more about them (usually) than the reader ever can. The writer is in the best position to see past any façade the character may put up, and often knows the character's backstory, whether it's shared with the readers, or not.:)
snowcap21 on 15/2/2008 at 11:57
Well, I don't think it's a question of more real or less real, when you compare the relationship of author - character and reader - character, but of more intimate. A well written character can become as real for a reader as for the author himself and gaps are easily filled with own imagination, so that you have in the end your very own vivid picture.
The author on the other hand spends an immense (or perhaps insane;) ) amount of time with the character. Er, at this point I somehow forgot, what I wanted to say exactly. Something about the nature of the difference in the relationship with a character. Not so much less real and more real, rather like a good friend and your own child.
jtr7 on 15/2/2008 at 12:16
Except the reader is embellishing. This is fine until the reader tells the writer what the writer wrote when the writer knows the real deal about what was written, and the reader is actually "wrong".:D
You know, the reader's imagination is the reader's sense of reality, but the writer wrote it from his/her own imagination and knows more than the reader ever will about the characters. The reader's imagination is inspired by what the writer wrote, but it's usually NOT the same pool of creativity the writer wrote from.:eww:
I hate it when someone looks at my works and tells me, and believes as if it were fact, what I mean to convey, what my motivations were, and that I intended their emotional reaction. Take it how you want, but don't credit me for what your own brain does. ;)
