Vivian on 18/4/2013 at 15:05
You could say classic thief blackjack bobs would be a step down from Dishonoreds erotic choke move. It's a quick, single blow to the back of the head that takes less than a second, vs something that takes long enough to need at least some planning to escape from (blackjacking someone of course takes a bit of planning, but you can be in-and-out v quickly).
SubJeff on 18/4/2013 at 15:20
The Dishonored choke doesn't feel like a QTE though because its all in first person. Personally I'd like to be able to disable the timer but other than that its a legit player action to character action manoeuvre.
The blackjack in Thief 1 and 2 is really no different to it and the gameplay consequences are slightly different because you need to not be seen and so you have to hid the body quickly. In Dishonored if you are seen you can fight fairly easily (or use some magic) and so aren't as punished as you are in Thief. The instant Choke-to-Carry option somewhat mitigates the time issue though.
demagogue on 18/4/2013 at 16:13
Also, the blackjack is part of world simulation though. You physically drop it, and it has to physically make contact, and it's the contact that does the KOing... I like mechanics that stay simulated and in the world. It makes one feel more like they're operating in this neutral world than playing a game & doing what the gods expect of you then they take over. Something like Dishonored, you just have to be standing in the vicinity, and then a popup and script takes over from there.
I mean, games have to have some abstraction too to be playable and fun... The lightgem & health shields and lockpicking were that kind of abstraction for the originals, and generally worthwhile. And it's not even black & white; there's a spectrum from more simulated to more abstracted for all mechanics. So I'm not even saying it's bad per se. But I can feel it changes the flavor of a game when it's setting mechanics more on one side or the other, and I tend to be a fan of the center of gravity being on the simulation side.
Edit: The other part of that point, so if they are going to abstract a mechanic (press X to 'script'), then it should payoff with some gameplay benefit that makes it fun or worthwhile to the game, and the 'wait' mechanic was part of that for Dishonored. So my general principle for good design is, simulate it unless you have a good reason to abstract it that justifies it.
faetal on 18/4/2013 at 16:45
In the case of e.g. Alpha Protocol & Deus Ex, a part of it is definitely so they can have a sexy take-down animation so their game looks more cool. To some extent, it actually should increase immersion by making the take-downs less restricted to the game's limited set of actions (why is my highly trained guy only capable of swinging stuff at people?), but I think it instead has the effect of interrupting gameplay by effectively acting as micro-cutscenes.
ZylonBane on 18/4/2013 at 19:53
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
Go read the Thief 4 anticipation forum, it's a cesspool of baseless negativity.
"Baseless"?
Really?Jason Moyer on 18/4/2013 at 19:59
Did I fucking stutter?
Hi.
SubJeff on 18/4/2013 at 20:08
Well ZB, you are of course correct; the negativity isn't baseless and if you're a really serious fan of the originals there is a lot to potentially put you off.
It (the negativity) is totally over the top though and the extent of it from some people is suggestive of sad insular existences.
Jason Moyer on 19/4/2013 at 00:15
You could argue that it's not completely baseless, but there's a massive disconnect between the tiny amount of available information and the conclusions people are drawing from it. Having a strong opinion on a game you haven't played it utterly stupid, anyway.
sNeaksieGarrett on 19/4/2013 at 00:43
Can't really argue with that your post.
SubJeff on 19/4/2013 at 01:05
Don't you mean post your argue sift backward basket age?
