Renault on 19/4/2013 at 23:48
Err, I'm pretty sure dt didn't post that link to show everyone what's "pretty cool about ThiefGen." The opposite in fact.
Renzatic on 19/4/2013 at 23:52
Eh, well, I kinda scanned through it. I figured it was the usual TG fare. You gotta respect the dedication and creativity, but it's also a sign of how overly attached they are to the series, and how closed in they've become.
Dia on 20/4/2013 at 00:29
I don't think that's really fair, Renz. Look at T2X, TDM, and the games released by CoSaS; hardly your typical Thief fare and all of which challenged Thief fans to think outside the box a little. There are quite a few FMs that pushed the limits and incorporated all sorts of new stuff, all of which (or most) were very well received. 'Closed in'? No, I disagree. If ThiefGen Taffers were so closed in, then they'd just be making the same FMs over and over and over again and that's not been what's happening. Certain hard-core Thief fans are basing their opinions on what little information EM has released about the game to date (and EM's been very stingy with that on top of it), and maybe they are adverse to so much change, that's human nature, you know, and there's nothing wrong with saying 'I don't like that'. But I've seen quite a few die-hard Taffers say that they're willing to give it a chance. You're talking about the relative few here, I think.
Also, regardless of whether TDS was a good game in its own right, there are a lot of Thief fans who felt that EM Eidos totally screwed the pooch on that one and are being cautious (perhaps overly so) about wholeheartedly and blindly accepting T4 because of that last fiasco. I'm not liking a lot of the changes EM has admitted to making and I can give you logical and clear-headed reasons why, but I honestly want to like it. However, I also want to know more and see more about T4 before I decide that yes, I'm going to pay $60 for this game. I don't call that being 'closed in'; more like 'careful with my money'.
SubJeff on 20/4/2013 at 00:40
Eidos Montreal had nothing at all to do with TDS so that line of reasoning is utter nonsense.
If that's the level of discussion that is going on down in Thief 4 Anticipation no wonder its so bad.
Dia on 20/4/2013 at 00:56
Sorry; I got so used to typing EM that it's almost automatic. Minor detail since I'm assuming you know what I meant.
SubJeff on 20/4/2013 at 01:10
Doesn't matter.
TDS was made by Ion Storm which ceased to exist in 2005.
ReThief is being made by Eidos Montreal which only opened in 2007.
I don't want to go to the French place in London that opened last week because the Indian place in Rome that shut last year was bad.
Renzatic on 20/4/2013 at 01:27
What Sub said. Most of what hurt TDS were some severe hardware limitations and a few stupid decisions made early on they couldn't work around. Like load zones. The Xbox had 64 meg of ram at its disposal, and was using an already ram hungry PC based engine that was made even more ram hungry due to the new renderer. This won't be a problem these days. The PS4, which I'm guessing is the target hardware, is for all intents and purposes an x86 PC with 8GB ram. Plus EM is using an engine that can stream level geometry on the fly. A load zone in Thief 4 could be roughly the size of the entirety of Thief 2.
Or attaching the camera to the 3rd person model. That was just flat out stupid, and I have no idea why ISA did it. We've seen quite a few games use both first and third person perspectives come out since, and none of them had the janky controls TDS had. Since EM seems to be focusing more on Thief 1 & 2 moreso than DS, I doubt they'll be emulating this problem. It won't be an issue.
You really can't compare anything that happened with TDS with Thief 4. DS had issues from day one. Not enough time. Not enough money. Not enough hardware. With Thief 4, it seems EM has had all the time and money in the world to work on it, and their hardware platform is just shy of the latest and greatest.
That doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a guaranteed great game. But if it does end up as a steaming bowl of suck ass, it'll at least be very polished steaming bowl of suck ass.
Queue on 20/4/2013 at 03:01
Quote Posted by faetal
I loathe fanboy entitlement.
If Thief is much better than all other games and no sequel will ever be as good, then GO FUCKING PLAY THIEF.
The new game will not erase the original.
It's like someone complaining that they were once treated to a 6 course meal at a Michelin star restaurant and now they only get taken out to normal restaurants (TTLG is ALL about the food analogies these days, maybe we're all posting while hungry?).
Being a fan of the original, does not ENTITLE you to anything. You bought the original game and can play it forever. You even have fan missions to extend the experience. The studio that has the IP can make whatever they like out of it and their only prerogative is that they make profit on top of their costs being recouped.
I'd actually say that more than most other industries, this one has a real commitment to fan service. I mean, sure they don't always get it right, but they do at least try.
The studio working on this new Thief aren't the same people who worked on the original and the suggestion that they should do everything in keeping with the original is absurd and insulting to the devs who probably want to make their own product rather than be reduced to re-skinning an older game. They don't just want to make a game that pleases the old guard (but I'm sure they'll try to do that as well), they also want to make a game that stands in its own right. If you don't like that? Don't play it. If you want a game which falls within the very strict hardcore fan criteria? Make a petition. Get enough signatures and you may get the studio's attention.
:thumb:
Dia on 20/4/2013 at 03:08
Quote Posted by Renzatic
That doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a guaranteed great game. But if it does end up as a steaming bowl of suck ass, it'll at least be very polished steaming bowl of suck ass.
With great graphics and lots of hand action.
;)
Muzman on 20/4/2013 at 03:41
Escapist guy makes a good point about the reasons given for the non-hiring of Russell
(
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/10290-Thief-s-Risky-Reboot)
It's true they would have started this process before the recent rather unpleasant stats came out. But gaming is in its (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra_%281963_film%29) Cleopatra period where everyone is trying to out epic each other with ever more absurd production values and gimicry. Fifty games all costing the same absurd numbers competing over the same dwindling dollar. One or two will win big. Most of them will lose. It's the sort of thing that destroyed studios and basically crashed Hollywood.
It's worse in this case because Thief already has a bit of a reputation as a series that can't sustain itself, rightly or wrongly.
Dear publishers/studios: Stop.
