sNeaksieGarrett on 28/5/2009 at 14:52
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
No, its not a game and if no one bothers to make any FMs you'll never play anything with it.
And it's not
like a total conversion, it IS a total conversion. Its the 1st line on the website ffs.
I KNOW this. Gosh, you didn't have to be so picky. I could go back and edit my post and remove the word like....:sweat: I know it's a toolset, but they didn't make it to sit there in the dust. People will surely build maps with it, thus it becoming a form of a game (okay why don't I just call it a total conversion modification.) True, it's not a commercially released game, and true, you need doom 3 to play it....
Quote Posted by nicked
Maybe rename it The Dark Notgame...
I think the key thing to remember is that you can release any game, level or media that contains references to copyrighted intellectual property,
as long as said media requires the original intellectual property to be owned by the downloader.That's why there's nothing wrong with T2X - you need to have bought Thief 2 to be able to play it.
That's why the Dark Mod needs to have no references to Thief in it, because you don't need to own a Thief game to play it, and therefore any references to Thief would count as theft of intellectual property.
Exactly! Well said.
Quote:
On another note, Black Mesa Source is a slightly grey area - to be fully technically legal, it would need to be released in such a way that means you need Half-Life 1 to play it; but in this particular case, Valve have essentially given their blessing to the project to break the law. The likelihood is that Valve will step in at the end and make people buy Black Mesa Source, but that's a different matter entirely.
Black Mesa Source uses the Source engine by Valve, and it uses NO files from HL1 as I understand it. Which is why it has taken forever to make the mod. I don't see it as being illegal. If they were to try and make black mesa source using HL1 material and it not require you to own a Source game, then I'd see a major problem...
Springheel on 28/5/2009 at 16:00
Quote:
People will surely build maps with it, thus it becoming a form of a game
Actually, we already have about half a dozen maps that are complete or nearly complete. :)
I think the distinction between "game" and "toolset" has a pretty big grey area. If you go to a bookstore and buy "Dungeons and Dragons", for example, you call it a "game" even though it's basically a set of tools for building your own world and adventure scenarios. "The Sims" would probably still be considered a game even if it didn't happen to come with premade neighbourhoods. In that sense, TDM is a "game" because it provides a consistent set of rules.
On the other hand, people do create assumptions when they hear the word "game", like Subjective Effect mentioned, which is why we try to reinforce the notion that it is a "toolkit".
nicked on 28/5/2009 at 16:36
Quote Posted by sNeaksieGarrett
Incorrect. Black Mesa Source uses the Source engine by Valve, and it uses NO files from HL1 as I understand it. Which is why it has taken forever to make the mod. I don't see it as being illegal. If they were to try and make black mesa source using HL1 material and it not require you to own a Source game, then I'd see a major problem...
It may not use physical resources, but it's still using the storyline and characters, meaning it is relying on copyrighted intellectual property.
sNeaksieGarrett on 28/5/2009 at 18:50
Ah okay, I'm corrected.:o
So the very fact that it uses any intellectual property, despite it being used in the Source engine, it's still illegal. Interesting. Well, I'm glad VALVe isn't having a hissy fit and they are allowing this great mod to come into fruition.:) We should be very thankful for that.
nicked on 28/5/2009 at 18:55
Indeed! But Valve are pretty good and community-oriented like that. They seem to one of the few successful game companies that actually realises that ignoring a bit of bureaucracy and red tape and actually nurturing fan-made extensions to their games results in a significantly increased product life and better long term sales prospects.
SubJeff on 28/5/2009 at 19:11
It also makes us love them. Eidos and EA are pretty hated if you go by forum comments. There are few moans about Valve and most of them are by people whose opinions you don't care about.
Yeah Springheel, I've had to explain to some people that TDM is not coming with a full T2X type campaign on various fora and chats. People seem to hear about it second hand and not bother looking at the site to see what it's all about.
Having said that I can't wait, for me and everyone else, to see the FMs that come with it and are made with it. People are going to drool.
god i'm such a tdm fanboi and no its not because i'm on the team because, as any real member will tell, you i'm certainly the most superfluous team member ever!
sNeaksieGarrett on 28/5/2009 at 19:38
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
It also makes us love them. Eidos and EA are pretty hated if you go by forum comments. There are few moans about Valve and most of them are by people whose opinions you don't care about.
Well each company probably has its share of haters or gripers. I recall reading somewhere someone's write up about VALVe products and saying that we complain a lot, but in the end we are very patient fans.:) Though I have read a lot of comments recently of people getting really antsy about episode 3.
Iceblade on 28/5/2009 at 19:41
Seems to hold true in a number of cases...even LG, while they fell away, Thief has experienced "a significantly increased product life and better long term sales prospects".
Albert on 28/5/2009 at 22:59
Hmm, true, iceblade...
But by "alternative to TDP/TMA" (don't even touch a key, subjective...)
I should have said "an alternative to TDP/TMA to play fan missions... made for TDP/TMA"
As in a free alternative to the original games that recreates the feel of thief, like TDM, but instead uses a full recreation/source of the dark engine itself to allow fans and newcomers alike to easily transition from one version to the other...
Of course, I can't say for certain that such a project could exist, its just I'm so busy lately, I could care less what the misguided readers of this thread have been processing (p2 speed)... and I obviously could care less what I'm bringing across... :erm:
