crazy jon on 31/5/2007 at 23:54

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Glad you liked it!

The more I think about it I think this is as finished as it's getting. There's really nothing more I can think of changing (unless someone comes up with something really good). Would you folks you waited for the finished draft like to read it?

crazy jon on 1/6/2007 at 05:39

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Don't worry, copyright notice has been in place since day 1! I'd prefer not to host it somewhere just so I can keep some kind of control over how it's distributed and so I have a rough idea of how often it's given out, etc. Most people email me directly, and that's the best way to get ahold of it. My email address is both on the first page and right here: [email]jon_marck@hotmail.com[/email]

crazy jon on 3/6/2007 at 05:09

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I'm not sure I quite understand. What's niveau? Did you think that the screenplay wasn't substantial enough? Was it too cliche? Maybe you could go into depth about what you would change or how you would see it differently. It's a tough line to walk, balancing between art and entertainment, and seeing that you're from Europe I can tell that you're used to a more free-form approach to cinema, and you're willing to be patient with your filmmakers. Unfortunately here in America our audiences are addicted to a more fast-food type of cinema. They want filmmakers to give them what they want immediately without any extra hassle (like forcing them to think). I had the option of making something completely indulgent and experimental and ambitious but that would be at the risk of losing both the audience and coherence. For now I think it's better to entertain than impress, especially since I've hardly proven myself as a screenwriter. Producers and investors aren't interested in winning Academy Awards. They're interested in placing first at the box office. If I ever get work as a writer it'll be because I can write cliche scripts. Still, I'm interested in knowing what you found so derivative. Is it because I didn't overturn the entire action/comic book film genre with 120 pages? What would you have changed?

I also wouldn't go as far to say that my screenplay has the depth of a tabloid title page. There's quite a lot of thought put into it, even if that's not readily apparent. You're only 2/3rds into it, maybe that'll become clear before the ending. Not that you should expect some grand (and disgustingly pretentious) statement about the human condition or social criticism or anything like that (V for Vendetta anybody?). I find preachy films off-putting, I think it's what ruined the Matrix sequels. This is supposed to be just a fun action story that further explores the Thief world and pushes a few boundaries, not a graduate thesis using the Thief backdrop as a prop. Like the games, my screenplay alludes to many deeper undercurrents without being dragged along with them. I found that to be one of the strongest aspects of the series so it was the approach I took to this work.

I'd never before heard that Thief was based on the Name of the Rose and I don't really see what the two have in common. I haven't seen the film but I know it's a murder mystery set at a monastery in the 1300's.

Also, I can tell you that there definitely aren't any plans to turn this screenplay into a movie.

Beleg Cúthalion on 3/6/2007 at 11:33

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Yeah, I'm still working at my English. That's why I am here and try to participate in discussions about film making. :DSome kind of quality level. Strange that the word doesn't seem to be common in English. :erg: That's exactly why I wanted to know what it's going to be. There's no sense in criticising a "commercial" movie for being commercial.Well, I'm on page 75 now (after...[SPOILER]the Lord-of-the-Rings-Dungeon-Ghost-Town and those Pirates-of-the-Caribbean-Davy-Jones's-Animal-Crew-Village[/SPOILER]... scene, as I called them for myself – I know it's a little mean and "reviewerish") and afterwards I could write you what I'd think about my opinion concerning your/some Thief movie in general. :)No, it wasn't meant this way, I just said that I would not appreciate something like that. But I think, to be honest, some director could make such a "tabloid movie" (won't check the dictionary now what would be a better-fitting term) of your writing. Uwe Boll maybe, I've heared horrible things about this guy...and he's from my home land. :weird: Watch it. It's great as a movie though it does not adapt all elements of the novell...of course. By the way it's one of the most authentic made historical films. They cared for things like pottery and so on..it's amazing.Personally, I would rather offer them an intelligent script that they can alter for the simple cinema visitor than a cheap peace of screenplay that even Jean-Jaques Annaud (or whoever...) could not push to a higher level.

So, enough typing, I have to hurry now, excuse me... ;)

crazy jon on 5/6/2007 at 05:33

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I was pretty surprised to find out that my video store actually carried the title. It's a nice little cult-film shop, less than a year old. I really enjoyed Name of the Rose and I see how it influenced Thief, especially the Dark Project. Both live in worlds where the sacred is replaced by the monstrous and both follow free-thinking protagonists who battle backwards philosophies. Both also place heavy emphasis on exploring ancient writings and they share a lot of the same imagery. Both also have a lot of scary, and scared, people in hooded cloaks. Still, I am glad my screenplay is the way it is rather than like Name of the Rose for a few reasons:

1) The Name of the Rose was Jean-Jacques Annaud's fourth film. He was more experienced, and, more importantly, he didn't have to prove himself. That's an important point to understand. It's so much easier for established filmmakers to take liberties because they have earned their credibility. For me to write an art film would be like Radiohead releasing Hail to the Thief, instead of Creep (Pablo Honey), in 1993. Sure, it might be brilliant, but if it's not appealing who cares? (Also note, this is the same problem that turned so many off Thief in the first place. The graphics were terrible, the maps were laborious and the animations were laughable.) Remember, it has to be fun first. Smart comes second, after you've won an audience's trust and proven yourself credible.
2) The Name of the Rose (1986) flopped in America, even with Sean Connery attached to it, and it wasn't even in subtitles! I'm writing this script for an American audience, and more importantly, American film production companies who get really nervous (rightfully so) when you tell them they're going to spend millions on a controversial religion-oriented period piece using ancient dialogue and mainly ugly actors. You must understand that Europe is socially, culturally and politically very different from America. The fact that we don't even have the word niveau should be a strong indicator.
3) The strong points of Name of the Rose were it's detailed recreation of the period, it's thoughtful, scholarly dialogue, it's atmosphere and it's message. Only one of those carries over to the Thief series. I'll give you a hint, it starts with "a". (Some might think the message carried over but they should remember that William was a forward-thinking Christian whereas Garrett is an anarchist. Think of Thief as a dumbed-down, simplistic Name of the Rose). To me the Thief series is more about imagination, open-ended creativity (exploding frogs? Who thinks up that stuff?!), and satisfying good-natured destructive impulses. That's the side of Thief that I tried to recreate with the screenplay.
4) Two of the four points listed above (recreation of the period and atmosphere) are decided in the production stage, not the pre-production (i.e. script-writing) stage. My script could be as good as Name of the Rose in those regards or better. It all depends on who makes it (and how much $$ they have). One of the requirements for reading a script is having the imagination to picture how it would look on screen. I think if you compared this to other screenplays, even very acclaimed, successful ones, you would find that I've provided the tools to allow the right filmmaker to take this script beyond a "cheap peace of screenplay".
5) Of the two Thief games I acknowledge, and the many, many excellent mods, it seems the farther they get away from that Name of the Rose style the better they get. Ever played 7th Crystal? Downright brilliant. Just the differences between the first and second game in that the second was less claustrophobic, more modernized, had a less archaic story, more flexible about the period and style, was more "steampunk" and was simply more fun, tell me that letting the Name of the Rose be such a strong influence puts one in dangerously dry territory.

Also, don't forget, Name of the Rose lists four separate screenwriters, all professional, all experienced, all highly-paid. It also is based on an excellent novel from which the writers lifted most of their dialogue; the hardest part of any script and, to me, by far the high point of the film. I'm not trying to excuse my script's weaknesses but let's be realistic here: four pro, full-time, experienced writers versus one first-time scriptwriter using his evenings and weekends away from school. I'd love to have had the hours and resources to fully research and explore the Thief world (I don't even have a computer capable of running the games any more!) but I have yet to be put in that position (and I'm half hoping this script might do that, but that's another story). So when it comes to fan fiction don't expect the Iliad. My script is fun, imaginative and intelligent. I think that should be enough.

P.S. I also think that in the right hands my script could turn into a film more impressive than the Name of the Rose, but who could make Name of the Rose's script into something fun? Gifted screenwriters open doors for filmmakers, they don't close them.

(edit) P.S.S. I'm also sorry that this post is so long. Beleg raised a good point though so I thought I'd give it as full an answer as I could.