crazy jon on 6/6/2007 at 01:30

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There are a number of reasons why I think this would not be a good idea:

1) It's already been done.
2) That plot was written for a computer game and thus has very computer game oriented devices.
3) The only people interested in reading the script (or seeing such a film) are people who have already played the game.
4) Creativity is stifled, not to mention originality.
5) It's far too long for a feature film screenplay, even by today's standards.
6) The Thief world is so big diverse why not explore it more deeply? Why retread old ground?
7) I don't think its story is less cliche than my screenplay, if anything it is more.
8) Ditto for substance. It's about swapping a gem in a pagan ritual to stop a devil called the Trickster! How is that an intellectual plot?!
9) I think the Thief world is much more interesting after Garrett's grown a reputation as the "master thief"

That said there is nothing stopping you from taking on such a project yourself. If you feel there is value and interest in such an endeavour, by all means, go for it. However that's a mountain I'm not willing to climb, not only because it's a large investment but also, for the reasons above, in my opinion not a worthwhile one.



I didn't like fighting them in the game but I loved their presence. Just the fact that the Thief world is inhabited by things like haunts and ghosts, etc. is really cool. It adds the mythological, supernatural and horror sides to it. I used this point of view when writing the screenplay so while the undead don't garner much screen time they play a major role in developing motivation and are referred to in many scenes.

Also I don't think there's anything particularly commercial about the monsters. Sure, they add colour but not at the risk of losing substance. If anything it allows for a larger exploration of how such creatures have thrown a monkeywrench into an already overstressed political/social system. That's why so many people describe George A Romero's films as some of the sharpest social commentary pop cinema has to offer. It's hardly fluff material, so I don't think that simply including zombies should be considered selling out.

crazy jon on 6/6/2007 at 07:45

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Too true!
What's your email address? You can send an email to [email]jon_marck@hotmail.com[/email]

(edit) Here's the next best thing (never mind the formatting):

Sarah bows her head and gathers her thoughts. When she feels refreshed she looks up across the broad, foggy square lit dimly by gas lamps. She sees a short, dumpy figure in a raggedy shawl enter a hazy pool of light at the far end. Leaning on a staff, the old HAG slowly makes her way across the square.

SARAH
What is she doing out here?

Sarah rises and walks quickly in the hag's direction.

SARAH
(to Benny)
Don't go anywhere.

The Hammers at the entrance see what she's doing.

HAMMER #1
Officer? It's not safe to be alone around here at night.

SARAH
(shouting over her back)
Tell me about it!

The Hammer gives up, not wanting to press the issue. After a bit of trotting Sarah reaches the hag. She doesn't say anything at first, content just to walk beside the gnarled figure at her snail's pace, watching her. The hag is bent so far over the staff that it is impossible to see her face. In fact all of her skin is either covered in dirty rags or facing the ground. It's painful just to watch her hobble along, and even more so because we can hear her harsh, jagged breathing. She wouldn't stand half a chance if anything tried to get her, about as long as a twig in a fireplace. Eventually:

SARAH
Are you far from home ma'am? Can I help you back?

No answer.

SARAH
It's too dangerous to be in the old quarter at this hour.

The hag reaches the corner of the building she was passing. She rounds the corner and disappears out of view. Sarah walks to the corner, turns and looks back at the massive cathedral with its tower sticking straight into the sky. She can barely see the door guards in the distance. A withered hand with long, sharp nails shakes its way around the corner to Sarah's back. With superhuman strength it grabs her, pulling her back into the shadows. Sarah is tossed to the shadowy cobblestones, limbs flailing. An arm connects with the staff, knocking it from the hag's hands close to where Sarah has fallen. The hag straightens up, showing she is no old woman (though she might be female and could very possibly have been human at one point). Horns protrude from the forehead, the eyes are black slits, the teeth are sharp and jagged and the skin is yellow and scaly. She draws a vial from somewhere in her clothing and uncorks it, allowing steam to drift from the opening as if it held dry ice. Sarah, a bit hurt from the tumble, scrambles to get out of splashing distance. Before the hag can pour any of the liquid on Sarah a dark figure (Garrett) body-slams her from the side. Now that the hag is knocked over Garrett kicks her in the face. She scampers out of sight. Sarah gets up and looks around but Garrett has disappeared. She bends over and picks up the staff noticing for the first time (it was previously covered by the hag's hand) that its headpiece is a large ruby. Sarah turns to go back to the cathedral but Garrett is now in front of her, blocking her way. He holds out his hand.

GARRETT
The staff.

Sarah stares at the staff for a second, thinking about her options. Her hand slides to the sword tied at her waist.

GARRETT
Too late.

He whips out a blackjack and hits her on the forehead. Sarah loses all perception as lights dance before her. Garrett takes the staff from her. Sarah leans against the wall of a building so she doesn't fall over.

GARRETT
You should get back to your friends.

crazy jon on 7/6/2007 at 05:25

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But people who have never played it aren't interested in reading it. Pretty much everyone who has offered to read my script has played the game. I still wrote it so that people who haven't played the game won't be left out but let's understand our audience here.



When I said computer game devices I meant a lot of the story is based around find the red key for the red door, zap the goblin and save the princess. Well, not exactly, but enough to make it seem too video game for me. Especially that whole part about getting the sword for Constantine and especially especially about switching the eyes around at the end.



Requires more skill because it is a limitation. It doesn't require more creativity because everything has already been created. Besides, I didn't just write the screenplay to write a screenplay, I wanted to have fun with it and I wanted to add my own ideas about Thief into it. Writing it according to the previous story makes the process more of a chore and less interesting to the writer.



I've thought about sequels (and planned for them while writing this screenplay) and I can tell you that if I wrote any they would stray far from the Thief storyline. I don't think it's important to bring them into accordance with the game. People can safely separate one story from the other without getting confused. Really it just means being flexible as a reader and not getting hung up on little details ("but the moss arrow grows in puddles, not vines!!"). All film adaptations do this, especially the recent comic book movies, like how Spiderman 3 rewrites the Venom saga (man they really should have left that one for it's own separate film). It lets fans experience the same core story elements under different circumstances rather than reissuing the same old story again and again.




It's too long in the sense that too much happens that wouldn't fit into a feature film story arc, unless you stripped it bare and rushed right through it or varied widely from the source material. In either case I'd just rather write a new story specifically designed for cinema.



Everyone already knows the story = old ground.



Many fanworks I like more than TDP and many many many I like more than TDS. I haven't played them in years but I remember that some were incredibly polished and professional. I also love the way that they expand on the Thief world; take it in different directions, add new elements and influences to create something I hadn't previously imagined.



I think if you have the imagination to accept a world where zombies roam abandoned mines and frogs explode you can suspend your disbelief enough to allow for some "what if?" scenarios. Getting anal about keeping the original story intact limits some great possibilities.



This describes the Thief world not the Dark Project storyline. Point being this exists in my screenplay.



Well, you got the Hammers right, or at least their motivations. They are not portrayed as a fanatical steamroller but as a fanatical steamroller wannabe. The script hints that their first attempt a generation ago started off well but ran into public support problems early on. That is why Caldwell fights hard to get the city on his side before engaging the pagans this time around. The pagans, on the other hand, are never portrayed as either handsome or revolutionists. They are streetrats who have infiltrated the darker corners of the city, mostly for mischievous purposes. We take their side, mostly because they fight for their own survival, but they're far from admirable.



He didn't do any semi-supernatural things in my story either. He climbed rooftops with the expertise of someone whose done it a million times before. Check out free-runner videos on youtube. The stuff those kids do is by far more extreme than anything described in my story. All I had Garrett do was slide down flagpoles and leap across overhangs. Seen the intro to Casino Royale? I think your expectations as to the boundaries of realism, or at least perceived realism, are uncommon.

I remember plenty of times while playing Thief where I executed, or at least tried to execute, some ridiculously acrobatic manoeuvres, especially on my way out of a mission. Dashing across balconies, mounting stone walls and shooting quick rope arrows while escaping monsters was thrilling; a highlight of the experience. That's what I wanted to bring to that scene. If you find that cliche, well then the game itself is cliche because it's an integral part of it!



If you haven't reached the end of my script then you haven't seen Garrett fight yet. In fact hardly anyone fights in my story.



Uh...yeah...he's Garrett. Are we talking about the same Thief here?!



Go for it. I disagree on whether that would make for a better film so my script's not changing, but you're more than welcome to write your own. I would sincerely enjoy and appreciate the read!



Three minutes, eh? I would love to sit on that pre-production meeting ("you want people to sit and watch him crawling in the shadows for how long?"). You'd have to be a killer, killer filmmaker to make that interesting. Seeing as how I cannot expect the next Stanley Kubrick to come along and turn my script into a cinematic masterpiece I have to write it so that whoever does come along will be able to make it successful.

Besides I have a scene like that. You might not have gotten to it yet. It takes place in a bank. The difference between that and what you're describing is that you want every scene to be like that. Really one of my main goals with this story was to put Garrett in as many situations as possible, basically to show how diverse and adaptable of a world the Thief universe is. So Garrett has his impressive "thieves highway" scene and he also has his tedious safe-cracking scene. I think that kind of variety gives the world more depth and possibility. It's also what drew me into the Thief games, which could put Garrett anywhere from a medieval dungeon to a haunted cathedral to a completely modern police station to a mansion designed by Escher.



In most of my screenplay the safe way is the spectacular way. The tunnel alongside the river Criss is a good example of that. Besides, what about the scene where Sarah escapes to Stoneright Abbey? And I had trouble convincing myself to let that scene stay so dry. You see, it's a delicate balance between keeping things credible and interesting. What you're describing is a surefire snoozer.



Everything that you listed described the Thief world, not the Constantine story. I completely agree that the Thief universe has substance, it's the plot of the first game that I called cliche and unintellectual. In fact most of what you listed shows up in some form in my screenplay. For example the whole reason he takes the River Criss exit is because of the nutshell idea; that that's the only real way out of the city!

Also you must remember that this is a film, not a video game. In a video game you have every opportunity to include whatever diversion you want. Should Garrett take a few missions out to go spelunking for an ancient horn? Sure, why not! Do we throw in three hundred characters, each of a different demographic, background and motivation? Sure, it's just a game! That's the thing about the Thief series. Between the three games they cover so much ground; so many completely unrelated settings, characters, plots, even styles. Films, on the other hand, must be cohesive, focused and direct. Unlike a video game the point of a film is its story. The difficult part of every adaptation is deciding what to keep and what to save for another time. Maybe I didn't cover enough of the side of Garrett that you wanted to see. That's unfortunate, but I still consider my representation to be accurate, just not the particular representation you were interested in. And some parts might have been done before, but I still think folks will find it fun to read/watch.

I appreciate and thank you for your points but I can tell we're not going to see eye to eye on this. If you get the chance I highly recommend you create your own fanwork according to your perception of the series. The more portrayals/adaptations of Garrett the more interesting he becomes.

jtr7 on 7/6/2007 at 07:17

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I'd like to read the screenplay, crazy jon. :)
I've e-mailed you. Thanks in advance.

yubetcha on 7/6/2007 at 12:27

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Likewise, email sent. I first got into Thief when Thief Gold was new. Very interested.