Valiento on 24/4/2010 at 22:35
Seeing how much they overhauled Splinter Cell mechanics in Conviction, I really hope Eidos doesn't follow suit in Thief 4, and later games.
Garret should not be a badass assassin... There should be real stealth shadow/light stealth like previous games. I want to still be able to hide bodies, have access to all of his previous equipment, pick pocketing, jump whenever I want to, etc. Bring back the rope arrows. Keep lock picking (does conviction have lock picking?), etc. I don't want to see any mark and execute (I like having full control over the bow).
I really don't want to see predator stealth or Assassin's Creed style mechanics implemented into the series.
The only way I might accept that kind of gameplay, is if it was with another character other than Garrett (in the same world). But I would still really miss the mechanics from the previous games. I like the slow methodological exploration and ability to read documents that add to the story.
Eidos, please don't sell out.
I'll be trying Conviction out for the first time next week. What I've seen from videos looks cool, but I really don't like how much of it was stripped down from previous games. Here's hoping the next one can be hybrid of both predator stealth and classic stealth (bring back full goggle use, hide bodies, etc). I would be fine with having all the options available, infact it would really add to replayability take it slow or fast depending on the situation.
Outlooker on 24/4/2010 at 22:56
I expect the worst for Thief 4.
It's nothing new:
Big games are made for the money. Most money means biggest audience, which again means that a game has to appeal the masses. The masses have no taste,skill or attention span so it all comes down to dumbing down game mechanics, bland story, huge breasts and lots of jokes about penises.
Good stealth gameplay has to be challenging - if you don't act on observation and analysis of what you learn you should fail.
Thief 1 to 3 wasn't difficult, but already much too complex and difficult for a really big audience. So we probably will get a good looking Thief 4 with health regeneration and Assassins Creed gameplay.
So what ?
DarkMod is where it's at. Posh looks with the true heart of thief.
SeriousCallersOnly on 24/4/2010 at 23:31
Quote Posted by Outlooker
I expect the worst for Thief 4.
It's nothing new:
Big games are made for the money. Most money means biggest audience, which again means that a game has to appeal the masses. The masses have no taste,skill or attention span so it all comes down to dumbing down game mechanics, bland story, huge breasts and lots of jokes about penises.
Good stealth gameplay has to be challenging - if you don't act on observation and analysis of what you learn you should fail.
Thief 1 to 3 wasn't difficult, but already much too complex and difficult for a really big audience. So we probably will get a good looking Thief 4 with health regeneration and Assassins Creed gameplay.
So what ?
DarkMod is where it's at. Posh looks with the true heart of thief.
Only have too look at fallout 3 to see that.
:(
Quest compass. humrrph
Also:
(
http://www.incgamers.com/Interviews/183/Thief-4-Developer-Interview)
Quote Posted by "Stéphane D'Astous"
So what sort of games have you taken inspiration from?
When I had time recently, I played Assassin's Creed, Splinter Cell, and that sort of thing, to really understand what makes those franchises as good as they are.
What do you think it is that makes them as good as they are, then?
I think it's mainly related to the fact that it's original, and original content always hits the spot. Obviously, we're going to be giving a lot of attention to the main pillars of these games. People remember these franchises because of their storytelling, their characters, their settings, and so on. It's because of their quality content.
Outlooker on 25/4/2010 at 00:09
Well, one cannot expect they shell out 50 Million Dollars or whatever Thief 4 / DeusEx 3 will cost just to appeal the fanbase. How many true fans are out there, compared with what - like 100 Million console playing "casual gamers" ? Big game companies go where the money is - thats nothing bad.
Look at the last decade:
More and more fanmissions were made - most of them as good as the original game content and quite often considerably better.
Who cares what big game companies do to thief 4 ?
The thief fanbase has proven to have the skills and resources to make their own thief -
at first, only missions were made. Very good ones.
Now, with Darkmod, there is even a very good game engine (DOOM 3) skilled and dedicated thief fans have adapted - highly successful.
Let's face it: I'd say the maybe top 30 fanmissions made were quite better than the original thief games. Mission X, CoSaS, Christines stuff and many other fan projects were better in every single aspect.
I have much more faith in that proven fanbase than in any company.
Goldmoon Dawn on 25/4/2010 at 00:55
Quote Posted by Outlooker
Let's face it: Mission X, CoSaS, Christines stuff and many other fan projects were better in every single aspect.
Nice.
Tell that to Tim Stellmach, or Doug Church, or Randy Smith, or any of the legendary LGS team.
Valiento on 25/4/2010 at 10:24
What happened to the love for the original Looking Glass Studio?
As for the above quote from the designer? I agree with him on story telling of Assassin's Creed being well thought out. However, I disagree with him on Splinter Cell... That series has been fairly convoluted, and full of generic thriller stories. The newest one is more of a Bourne/24 style story... All fairly cliched.
However, if he was taking inspiration from early Splinter Cells, that's not too bad (they were pretty traditional style lightgem stealth). At least he didn't have access to
Conviction, when he made that quote... Let's hope they aren't playing Conviction to pull ideas from it now (and remove features)... Also don't make the games as linear as Splinter Cell... Open world (GTA/Deadly Shadows/Wolftenstein (2009) style) tends to better received by players. Another game I think that got traditional "first-person sneaker" stealth right was the Chronicles of Riddick games (albeit a bit too bad-ass for Garret).
Seriously though, what I would like to see is something like a Thief Chronicles. Something of an episodic series, off the internet. 4-5 missions per episode, for a reasonable price. One of Thief's strongest aspects was its, adventure game ethos. Sure it had action, but its deep storyline tended to draw in the Adventure game fans. Now that Adventure games have made a comeback under the new many episode format style, I think they could make that a selling point.
The episodes could be used to fill extra bits on Garret's life (go back to before events of Thief 1, or periods in between the series). Show us more of the City. They could also use it to create new playable characters, from different points of the series history (with different skill sets)? Play a theif from the time of the Precursors, play as Benny, or a Hammerite/Mechanist, play as Keeper assassin, or a mage/cleric caster type character. Play as garrett's apprentice. A Benny/Hammerite/Mechanist mission could be more traditional hack and slash style game. Caster characters would add more of a first person shooter style. Garret missions would be limited to all of his known skills (with new skills added via new kinds of arrows). Perhaps his apprentice is more of a fighter/assassin, and thus be more of a badass than Garret.
Like telltale games they could do it by seasons, 4-5 episodes per season. Thus they could add to the richness of the universe, without dilluting Garret.
d'Spair on 25/4/2010 at 14:49
Quote Posted by Outlooker
Let's face it: I'd say the maybe top 30 fanmissions made were quite better than the original thief games. Mission X, CoSaS, Christines stuff and many other fan projects were better in every single aspect.
Let's face it: you forgot to mention that Mission X, CoSaS, Christines stuff and many other fan projects could easily happen if Looking Glass never existed.
Outlooker on 25/4/2010 at 16:21
The inventors of the wheel deserve huge credit, but modern transportation and logistics are a huge leap from the basic wheel. So it is with thief. When the foundations were laid an explosion of (over time: evolved = better) content followed.
Valiento on 25/4/2010 at 17:20
Quote Posted by Outlooker
The inventors of the wheel deserve huge credit, but modern transportation and logistics are a huge leap from the basic wheel. So it is with thief. When the foundations were laid an explosion of (over time: evolved = better) content followed.
Except, no one really knows who invented the wheel.
A better example would be lightbulbs and Edison. To this day he still receives the credit, even though there have been advancements in lighting since he invented them.
Darwin still receives the credit for evolution, even though there has been advancements in the study.
To me personally, the fan missions might be fun, but I still consider the official series the best. They have Garret (and his voice actor), they are the only stories that actually count for the universe, etc.
d'Spair on 26/4/2010 at 11:23
Quote Posted by Outlooker
The inventors of the wheel deserve huge credit, but modern transportation and logistics are a huge leap from the basic wheel. So it is with thief. When the foundations were laid an explosion of (over time: evolved = better) content followed.
Fan missions for Thief is a paint for a wheel. They are nice addition, not substitution.
