The Shroud on 6/11/2009 at 00:35

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Yeah, I know that isn't how water-arrows work in the game (although if you look at the player's manual, you'll see their original concept was closer to this than magic - not a justification, just something interesting to consider). There are several reasons I chose to depict them this way:

1. Realistically, splashing a torch with the approximate volume of water that a tiny paper cup might contain (assuming all of it even contacts the embers) is not a very reliable method of ensuring the flame will go out.

2. An arrow with a severely disproportionate amount of its weight in the front would not fly very well, as any archer could tell you.

3. Splashing a torch with water is rather noisy and would be heard by people nearby.

4. If the crystal bursts and the arrow-shaft isn't pointed, the shaft would clatter noisily to the ground, alerting guards.

5. Having a torch's light go out instantly is bound to catch someone's attention.

6. The audience might not realize water-arrows are supposed to be magical, and might scoff at the absurdity of what's seen.

7. There's really no reason for Garrett to resort to magic if a bit of water and baking soda will do the trick - it's cheaper too.

8. Water crystals showing up in everyday bodies of water would seem ridiculous to a non-fan audience.

9. There's a reason we use CO2 to extinguish fires over plain water - it works better.

10. Garrett is supposed to be an artist - water-arrows should be his invention, not something a common thief might use. If a water-arrow is nothing more than an arrow-shaft with a naturally-occurring crystal attached, which seems about as commonplace in the game as ice-cubes are to us, there's not much brains involved - which means anyone could duplicate it. Garrett's methods should be unique.

In the end, we as fans have to realize that "water crystals" were dreamed up for essentially one purpose - to give the player a means of putting out light, and thus make sneaking around unseen more feasible. That is literally the only reason they exist in the game - for the player's benefit (yes, I know they attempted to justify the crystals' presence in the Thief setting, but the reason they were created in the first place was for the player's use).

That might work in a game where your audience isn't overly concerned with believability, but a movie-going audience is going to be thinking, "Wait a minute - these crystals just conveniently pop up in bathtubs and sinks when Garrett needs more water-arrows? Come on!"

As fantasy-based as Thief's setting is, the major laws of nature are still present - we can expect gravity, the sun rising and setting, the moon shining at night, sound, light, and motion operate as we're used to, etc, etc. Therefore, crystals appearing "naturally" in bodies of water doesn't seem to make any sense. We can't fathom any logical explanation for this occurrence, using what we know about water in the real world. We're not talking about controversial issues like the existence of magic, gods, or altruistic politicians - this is physics.

If we had some reason to think those bodies of water were not really water at all, and that Thief's entire universe is drastically alien from ours - then it might make more sense. But as it stands, I'm calling a spade a spade - water crystals exist for gameplay, not something integral to the story.

The Shroud on 6/11/2009 at 03:10

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Thanks. :) I remember taking a while to come up with a seamless transition, even inventing new dialogue for Garrett to smooth it over. Eventually I realized this was the simplest way.

Namdrol on 6/11/2009 at 08:05

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And torches like those depicted in Thief were generally made of rags bound on a stave and dipped in pine tar (pitch).
These would have been very hard to douse without complete submersion.
So there has to be some sort of fudge with the elemental arrows.
And just enough of a nod towards realism is what's needed to prevent "losing" people who don't know the Thief series.

The Shroud on 6/11/2009 at 20:22

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Yep - once the crystal breaks on impact, the CO2 squirts out of the pressurized hypodermic shaft directly into the kindling's fissures, choking the flame quietly from within.


Roughly the size of an arrowhead, perhaps a bit larger - but since the entire arrow (crystal and shaft) is filled with a solution of water and CO2 gas, its weight is more evenly balanced. It still wouldn't travel quite as far as a normal arrow would, but Garrett probably doesn't need to douse torches from hundreds of meters away.


Yes - or, more specifically, the kindling/embers.


There are probably a few gas lamps and electric lights around, but just as the player never had to douse any in TDP (only in TMA), in the script Garrett doesn't have to deal with them either. Also, dousing a gas lamp could be problematic, since the gas itself would still flow and would be smelled by anyone nearby (not to mention it'd be highly combustible).


In the script, Garrett does not use them to wash away blood, no. In fact, he doesn't kill any humans in the story to begin with, so it never becomes necessary.


Sure, there might be. It's never shown in the script but it sounds probable.


Moss and gas arrows don't appear in the script. Fire arrows do - but, like water arrows, instead of being shafts strung with naturally-formed crystals, they're more like the original concept of fire arrows depicted in the "Tools Of The Trade" TDP trailer and the player's manual: they appear as arrow-shafts mounted with hollow, glass arrowheads containing a burning substance - probably sodium submerged in alcohol.


In the script, fire arrows don't burn until Garrett ignites them (which is done with a forceful push of the nock - injecting the sodium contained in the shaft through a breakable membrane and into the ethanol-filled arrowhead, thereby setting off the reaction).


Fair enough. :)


Please do!


Very true.


Agreed - that was my objective with the closeup shots of the water-arrow. It's about 6 seconds of screen-time.


Don't worry - even though I'm explaining how the arrows function here, the script doesn't bother with it (for instance, the audience is not ever going to see an interior shot of a torch's embers being choked by CO2). I'm only showing enough of the arrows up close to imply that there's more to them than just "an arrow-shaft with a capsule of water attached". This will at least allow for the realists in the audience to draw plausible conclusions about how the arrows work - and thus they'll be able to take what they see more seriously.

The Shroud on 7/11/2009 at 17:20

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Thank you. :)