Echelon5 on 27/10/2009 at 02:44
Quote Posted by Namdrol
I want to read more. ;)
I agree with this individual. I'd also like to add that judging from your plans with the screenplay and what I've read so far it seems to be in just the right direction. Regular TDP pretty much plays out like a film anyway. To me this is mostly because, as you said, the story was designed first.
Blue Sky on 28/10/2009 at 10:07
Quote Posted by The Shroud
Anyhow, my objective is to adapt TDP to a movie, rather than fabricate a story based on Thief. If I fail and it doesn't pan out, then...so be it. But I'd rather fail at an authentic adaptation than succeed at a non-authentic recreation. ;)
Quote Posted by The Shroud
Agreed. In many ways it will be a very artistic, 'silent' film - utilizing visuals and sound to tell the story over a lot of dialogue. I firmly believe it can be done though.
No that's fair enough! My thoughts were centered more along the lines of, "if a Hollywood studio were backing a Thief movie, how would I create a film which was full of story and action, whilst simultaneously retaining the core elements which make Thief Thief!"
What you're trying to achieve is more of an art film adaptation, I think, much truer to TDP. I'm still not convinced it'll prove to be a satisfying film (dialogue montages are fine in games but don't tend to work for long periods in film) but I am very excited by your work so far!
Beattie on 28/10/2009 at 12:41
Hello there, (i have not read the replies in this thread so forgive any ignorance)
I have read your script for thief and congratulations on making such a good draft. I have been looking into this "thief movie" concept for some time now and i would like to offer some suggestions for your script from a cinematic point of view.
though people like the script you must remember it will look much shorter on screen and do not neglect the fact that people unfamiliar with thief will be watching this, which is why i strongly advise you expand the introduction of Garrett. this is vital in the success of the movie because if the audience does not connect with Garrett the movie will fail and at the moment he is much to underdeveloped for us to care that he is A. and orphan B. going to train with these "keepers".
The story is, you must admit a bit cliche, which is common in games but there are ways to avoid this. Perhaps have Garrett talk about his escape from a orphanage, maybe show a traumatic experience of his childhood besides being hungry. dont make him some superhuman stealth machine as a child. let the hammerites catch him and punish him to show his struggle more. we must feel for this character, in the game we play as him so there is no problem there but with the movie you cant just reiterate the plot and actions, you must expand using the strengths of film.
edit: looking over the script again i cannot see this as a live action feature film. But as an animation intended for thief fans this would make a great script. there needs to be much more character development and time taken to set the scene of "the city" and the keepers. this sort of jumps straight into the thief universe hard and fast, so much so that it will be confusing for an audience.
Beleg Cúthalion on 28/10/2009 at 13:50
There might be a possibility to throw in the accusations of Garrett against the Keepers' neutrality which can be found on the original Dark Project homepage. I just don't have a link right now.
The Shroud on 28/10/2009 at 21:32
Quote Posted by Beattie
though people like the script you must remember it will look much shorter on screen and do not neglect the fact that people unfamiliar with thief will be watching this,
True and noted.
Quote Posted by Beattie
which is why i strongly advise you expand the introduction of Garrett. this is vital in the success of the movie because if the audience does not connect with Garrett the movie will fail and at the moment he is much to underdeveloped for us to care that he is A. and orphan B. going to train with these "keepers".
You know, it's funny - in my very first draft of the script, I had put a lot more into the beginning. Among other things, I had included a heated argument between Young Garrett and his instructor that highlighted both Garrett's growing anger, and the fundamental moral differences between his outlook and the Keepers' central doctrine of neutrality and non-intervention - which ultimately resulted in his leaving the Order.
Then I realized that all these ideas and notions I'd had about what Garrett's childhood must have been like, I had unconsciously pieced together using nothing but what was revealed to all of us in Thief canon. And that made me think - if my imagination dreamed up these ideas and explanations using only the canon, maybe the canon's material really is enough in the first place? If
we have arrived at conclusions about Garrett's past using only what is shown to us in the Thief series, maybe it's best to allow the audience to draw their own unconscious assumptions as well?
Beattie on 28/10/2009 at 22:59
i understand that expanding too much wont leave anything to the imagination but u need to expand a little bit and maybe switch some things around. the "book of the stone" quote needs to placed somewhere later but it doesnt have the right impact if it is followed by the keepers and another quote. I suggest that when Garrett leaves the keepers then we see that quote followed by bafford manor and i also think you need to have the Ramirez mission in there to show his level of involvement in crime.
Also make sure to put a "6 months later" or something in there so that it doesnt look like as soon as he gets away from the keepers hes robbing mansions. Cutty should have more involvement in the story than he does in the games because you cant just have Garrett sneaking around, itle be boring. Remember when adapting a game to a movie gameplay is replaced with action and you want to keep that to select moments. For this to work you must expand on characters and story. the bafford job should be around 5-10 minutes while Ramirez 5 minutes. The main strength of film is showing the passage of time and use that to your advantage.
Echelon5 on 28/10/2009 at 23:18
Quote Posted by Beattie
i understand that expanding too much wont leave anything to the imagination but u need to expand a little bit and maybe switch some things around. the "book of the stone" quote needs to placed somewhere later but it doesnt have the right impact if it is followed by the keepers and another quote. I suggest that when Garrett leaves the keepers then we see that quote followed by bafford manor and i also think you need to have the Ramirez mission in there to show his level of involvement in crime.
Also make sure to put a "6 months later" or something in there so that it doesnt look like as soon as he gets away from the keepers hes robbing mansions. Cutty should have more involvement in the story than he does in the games because you cant just have Garrett sneaking around, itle be boring. Remember when adapting a game to a movie gameplay is replaced with action and you want to keep that to select moments. For this to work you must expand on characters and story. the bafford job should be around 5-10 minutes while Ramirez 5 minutes. The main strength of film is showing the passage of time and use that to your advantage.
I'm going to have to disagree with a lot of this (respectfully of course!).
A big part of what makes the best films truly the best is the golden rule: Show, don't tell. We don't need to see "6 months later" because the script very clearly states that Garrett is a teen when he leaves. When he is revealed for the first time during the Bafford job, he would look older. The general movie going audience (of every country, not just the US, just to clarify) is not stupid.
And simply telling someone that something should be such and such a way (example, saying the Bafford job should be 5-10 minutes, etc) without giving a good enough reason isn't very good advice I'm afraid. Also note that when reading a screenplay, it is usually considered that one page equals one minute screentime.
From the looks of the chunk of the script we've been able to read, and the description of the story itself, it really does seem that he HAS taken select moments from the game and crafted them into an engaging storyline. I'd say it's a bit too early to judge without reading the full screenplay (wink nudge hint) but from the sounds of it, it's in capable hands.
HOWEVER, I am not saying that we shouldn't be critical! I'm just saying that looking a bit deeper into what you've been exposed to is good too!
The best films (and screenplays) are the ones that let me think and don't blackjack me over the head with information so that I GET AND UNDERSTAND AND FEEL FOR the characters.
Take Blade Runner for instance. What exactly do we know about Rick Deckard? He's been married once, failed at it, is probably an alcoholic, and shoots androids for a living. Do I care about him? You're damn right I do! His personality and the way he connects to his environment is what makes me want to see Deckard succeed, not necessarily his DARK and MYSTERIOUS PAST.
He's right. If we have enough of an imagination to think Garrett is just the slickest anti-hero ever simply by some exploits, one-liners, and about a total of 5 minutes of character development (he was poor, trained with the Keepers, left!), I'm sure the screenplay will due him enough justice.
Beattie on 28/10/2009 at 23:27
i didnt see the "(Garrett 29)" so yeh better than 6 months later for sure. i was suggesting to keep baffords to 10 minutes and Ramirez to 5 so that the whole stealth thing doesnt get boring which it will if the sequences are too long.
The Shroud on 29/10/2009 at 00:46
Bafford's manor lasts 4 minutes, while Constantine's mansion lasts a little under 10 minutes. Ramirez's mansion doesn't appear in the script, as Ramirez had very little to do with the overall plot of TDP.
Echelon5 on 29/10/2009 at 01:20
Quote Posted by The Shroud
Bafford's manor lasts 4 minutes, while Constantine's mansion lasts a little under 10 minutes. Ramirez's mansion doesn't appear in the script, as Ramirez had very little to do with the overall plot of TDP.
That sounds right about where it should be, honestly. In game terms, Ramirez was sorta relevant because it's what opened Viktoria's eyes up to Garrett. Though I'm sure she could have easily found out about Bafford or Cragscleft.
