oneof4 on 16/2/2009 at 04:39

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My Playstyle

Difficulty: Expert
Ghost: Yes, on the way in. No, on the way out (just tired, and ready to get it done.)
Total Time: 3 hours 25 min. 13 sec.
Loot Total: 2619 out of 2729
Pockets Picked: 4 out of 6 (Did anyone get more than this?)
Knock Outs: 14

General Mission Thoughts:
This mission was "okay", very easy to ghost if one wanted to. I liked the necessity of having to take the "Thieves Highway" to check out certain areas. In reading the original mission thread I noticed that until the author revised this mission, there was no compass. I can't imagine trying to navigate that map without one.:wot: On the subject of the map, it was very helpful. The city was laid out well, and the estate was designed fairly well.

Standout Mission Traits:
What I call the "key puzzle"; you find one while watching the attack on Lord Archer, then you've got to find what the heck it opens; the safe?...nope, the door to where the attack took place?...nada. Then after backtracking awhile, you find out why jotting down some notes along the way might be worthwhile; I totally forgot about that little lock box.:o That was planned out very nicely by the mission author.

Mission Oddities:
A few:
Doors dissappearing, not a big deal unless there is a patrolling guard on the other side.:eek:
Proportions of some objects/structures: The gas mine looked to be the size of a sunburst device, the bar that many have mentioned, the toilets in the estate would have required stepladders for Garrett to use them.:laff: It's interesting to note that all of these disproportionate objects seem to be contained in the estate, I don't seem to recall any in other parts of the map.
The modern machines in the warehouse: I can overlook the robots, but the other devices just don't fit.

Replay Value:
Nope, but there's not too many that I ever play more than once anyway.

Personal Mission Accomplishments:
This is one of the few missions that I was able to accomplish all objectives with no forum assistance.

Xorak on 16/2/2009 at 06:50

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Honestly, I often never see the need for the compass. I keep wishing there would be a level that would make it almost a necessity, but maybe that kind of level would be too frustrating. I couldn't even read the map in this one, so I was just went without.

Something I've never seen before was the blackjack that you had to pilfer from the dude in the inn.
I think from the readible, that Garrett had a girlfriend in the mission, but I'm not sure who it was reffering to, maybe the woman guard in the room next to the start. If so, I knocked her out first thing after getting the blackjack just because she was there. :cool:

Things I feel didn't work, was that the author just kind of threw in everything. There were robots, an estate area, that strange pagan area with the white tentacle things that reminded me of the end of Half Life. They were all there, but they had no connection. I believe that if there were more readibles, just more 'day in the life' type things happening in the level it could kick it up to another level. Perhaps, the warehouse area could be connected to the estate part.

If there were side quests that could just add more interest and replay value it would flesh it out better. The city was exceptionally well done, just emptyish. The estate was a huge place, that seemed like that just for effect and had no bearing on the story. I think it would be cool if there was just more 'stuff' to the level. Like if the author perhaps explained that the estate was so large because it had been built by giants, and maybe there was a hidden treaasure that the giants had put into the place and that nobody could ever find, except of course Garrett himself.

Xorak on 16/2/2009 at 20:35

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Yea, I agree that the original thief missions (with some exceptions) weren't the best. I think they were kind of hedging their bets, I feel they definitely were in the first one. Like they were afraid people didn't want the full, difficult experience of sneaking around so they added more regular stuff for those people who wanted to kill things instead.
I don't know if anyone's ever played the Commandos games, but I wish sometimes thief was more like that where you had to plan exact routes around places, and time things to the second to get through successfully. I love the idea of being forced to ghost through a hall of guards, that you'd have to time just right to run through them all -- and then of course you have to come back.

I get the feeling that in this level, the author let the hugeness of the mission speak for itself so to speak. Making a map that large must have taken quite a while and that part of it is very impressive. I think though that the limitations of the engine weren't neared. As other people have remarked, the city wasn't 'real'. Like for instance the placing of keys and the reason for putting Garrett's buddy where he was.

Balboa on 18/2/2009 at 01:48

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Difficulty: Expert
Style: I have a style? :confused:
Total Time: 2 hours. 4 min, 23 sec.
Loot Total: 2679 out of 2729
Pockets Picked: 4 out of 6
Knock Outs: 28 (Locked Ramirez in the pool room with the corpse)

This is really a great idea! :joke:
I have not played a lot of FMs lately (been a little (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125288) busy)

I thought a lot about Thief I during this mission, with the severe shadows and empty streets.

The biggest annoyance (for me) was the looseness of the sound propagation. It's hard to be sneaky when you can hear all of the mansion - and they can hear you.

The Ramirez scripting was well done, but overall it seemed a bit sterile - like a home that's been overly tidied-up before guests arrive.

Still, a new (for me) FM after years of Dromed was fun. :)

Tannar on 18/2/2009 at 07:47

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Difficulty: Expert
Ghost: Yes
Total Time: 2 hrs 34 min
Loot Total: 2489 out of 2729
Pockets Picked: 4 out of 6
Knock Outs:0
Damage dealt: 0 Damage taken: 4 (rope arrow) Healing taken: 0

General Mission Thoughts:
All in all an excellent way to spend a couple of hours I thought and I really enjoyed it. :thumb: Overall it was a nice blend of TDP and TMA. It had a definite TDP feel to it at times contributed to by the choices in sound, textures and AI skins. The gameplay was engaging and held my interest thoughout, though the ending was a bit anticlimactic. I was expecting something more rewarding after all that work to find the estate and infiltrate it. I never saw any kind of "boss battle" situation which SneakyJack mentioned earlier in this thread. I just snuck up and lifted the key off of Ramirez (at least I assume that was Ramirez, maybe it was Archer or maybe just a thug). The story could have been more developed and a few more readables or additions to existing readables would have helped. But then, the entire premise was a bit silly. None of that detracted from the moment to moment gameplay though which was fun.

Standout Mission Traits:
The general TDP feel of the thing. The twised city streets with some nooks and crannies to explore. Having to use your brain (and the map) to find a way to proceed. Just the kind of stuff I particularly like. The textures in the streets were not up to todays standards perhaps but they gave the city a seedy kind of feel that I felt went very well with the mission and I felt right at home there. The textures, architecture and layout of the estate were exceedingly well done.

Mission Oddities/Problems:
Oversized objects, objects with badly adjusted physics, anachronistic objects (e.g. computers) and less than ideal room brushing. And the weird magical thingy in the warehouse area. I kept expecting to see the Trickster show up. What was that about?

Disappointments:
Mainly that there wasn't more thieves' highway work and not enough nooks and crannies. Access to a few more buildings would have been enjoyable, although in all fairness, I never did find a way to open one metal door at street level. And as I mentioned already, the story needed a bit of beefing up (I would have liked to find out what that thing in the warehouse was for one thing) and the ending was a bit of a letdown.

Replay Value:
Probably won't replay it. There are much better missions out there that will satisfy my cravings for big city maps and exploring that have a much bigger payoff in the end and are much more challenging along the way.

Personal Mission Accomplishments:
Well, I ghosted it but it wasn't terribly difficult, just tedious at times.