Thievery CryEngine 3 - TTLG Forums

SubJeff on 20/8/2011 at 13:56

Well Black Cat went on do Alien Swarm. This a different group isn't it?

clearing on 14/4/2013 at 18:26

Thievery 2 for UDK: (http://www.moddb.com/games/thievery)

gnartsch on 14/4/2013 at 19:58

Quote Posted by clearing

Thievery 2 for UDK: (http://www.moddb.com/games/thievery)

Thanks for bringing that up, clearing !
Has anyone played the (http://www.moddb.com/games/thievery/downloads/thievery-tenth-anniversary-community-edition) Thievery - 10th anniversary community edition (June 2012) already ?

demagogue on 14/4/2013 at 21:22

I played around with it, but nobody was online at the times I tried (granted I was in a bad timezone for it). It had AI, but it's not quite the same without playing live people. Still, it's an improvement over the original, so if you liked that, it's that plus better. :thumb:

muncadunc on 15/4/2013 at 07:38

Yeah, I don't understand why they're reinventing the wheel when they could build a multiplayer mode into The Dark Mod. All the gameplay has already been implemented, there's assets galore, voice acting, et cetera all on a GPL game engine.

You really can't beat that.

thief.in.thievery on 6/7/2013 at 14:01

Quote Posted by muncadunc

Yeah, I don't understand why they're reinventing the wheel when they could build a multiplayer mode into The Dark Mod.

All the gameplay has already been implemented...

You really can't beat that.

Pardon me, but did Thief _Team_ DeathMatch was tested and realised by the Dark Mod Team?
Where is the evidence that Dark Mod truly supports second team, other then thieves team?
Youtube link as evidence is welcome here. Now beat that.

As for the gameplay, I don't think that you understand what did you said.

The question ... IS Thievery gameplay implemented in The Dark Mod?

I'm sure that taffers on this forum and on The Dark Mod community is stucked in the single player and have absolutely no idea how is looks superb Multiplayer gameplay of Thievery.

Can you beat that? Hoh!

muncadunc on 6/7/2013 at 17:25

The Dark Mod already has the gameplay- it has stealth mechanics, AI, models, textures, scripts, object systems, the whole nine yards. Anyone who wants a multiplayer Thief-like is free to add the multiplayer code.

Much less work than re-implementing all that in CryEngine- which doesn't handle interior environments well due to its reliance on prefabs.

thief.in.thievery on 6/7/2013 at 20:44

You was warned. A lot sentences with question mark at the own ends are incoming.

Quote Posted by muncadunc

The Dark Mod already has the gameplay- it has stealth mechanics, AI, models, textures, scripts, object systems, the whole nine yards.

I'm that happy that The Dark Mod have _OWN_ gameplay.

But

again

what relation has The Dark Mod gameplay to the Thievery gameplay??

Both game stealth mechanics? Oh really?

Well, this is absolutely not enough.

I repeat. What about Team Deathmach?

How The Dark Mod support all issues of Thievery Team DM?

Quote Posted by muncadunc

Anyone who wants a multiplayer Thief-like is free to add the multiplayer code.

Thief-like multiplayer is a sad Coop.

Believe me, if you don't know youself, that Thievery-like multiplayer is absolutely different thing then Thief-like multiplayer.

For example what about Thievery-like AIs? They are also could live in The Dark Mod universe?

Quote Posted by muncadunc

Much less work than re-implementing all that in CryEngine- which doesn't handle interior environments well due to its reliance on prefabs.

Perfect!
So CryEngine couldn't handle interior environments.
So The Dark Mod could handle Team Deathmatch and Thievery-like AI?
You're as much specialist in CryEngine as you're pro in Dark Mod, right?
So what is your verdict about Team DM and TUT AI?
Why you're sure that it's possible to write stable multiplayer code for Thievery (in gameplay of which you're not expert, as I see) on the base of The Dark Mod?

nbohr1more on 7/7/2013 at 20:00

I think there is some misunderstanding here.

There general premise is that Thievery and TDM both are fundamentally trying to approximate Thief style game-play.
If that is not Thievery 2's intention then... so be it, the two should not be compared.

If Thievery is in-fact a variation of Thief style game-play then a new version would presumably benefit from pre-existing
work in the same realm, no?

The road to a new Thievery could have been:

1) Add Doom 3 multi-player SDK components back into TDM
2) Refine AI and features to use multi-player features
3) Ship

Obviously I'm oversimplifying this but on the surface it seems to be a shorter route than

1) Create Thief style assets (AI, Models, Animations, Sounds, Textures, etc)
2) Create Thief style AI
3) Create Thief style systems (sound propagation, lock-picking, etc)
4) Develop multi-player code
5) Ship

Now, I have no doubt that you could make missions (maps) in Crytech but the last remaining question is
"how hard is it for the average mapper to make new missions"?

To my knowledge, to do anything other than sculpt terrain in Crytech you will need to make models? You can't make buildings (etc)
from editor brushes like you can in Dromed or Dark Radiant (TDM)...?

(If mappers also need to be modelers then that significantly reduces the possible map contributors to the project.)

So the presumed concerns are:

1) How much longer is this going to take than a hypothetical use of (anything from) TDM as a base?
2) Will the mod die before it completes all that work?
3) Will the mission editor be enticing enough to gain a decent amount of mission authors?
4) Will the Thievery 2 team (themselves) create all the missions (negating the need for question 2)?

Don't let anyone tell you that it can't be done. It just looks like a risky move from an outsider's perspective.

thief.in.thievery on 9/7/2013 at 20:42

Quote Posted by nbohr1more

There general premise is that Thievery ... fundamentally trying to approximate Thief style game-play.

Your statement goes against years of Thievery players experience which was perfectly accumulated on Thievery forums.

Looking on this fact the only thing that I could ask you is just where you read such genius idea about approximating.

Quote Posted by nbohr1more

If that is not Thievery 2's intention then...

It's a public information that Thievery 2 developers are die hard Thievery players.

So there's a zero chance that they will not make Thievery 2 that will be not like Thievery 1.

Even if these devs don't say a thing about their project on project web page.

Quote Posted by nbohr1more

...so be it, the two should not be compared.
If Thievery is in-fact a variation of Thief style game-play then a new version would presumably benefit from pre-existing work in the same realm, no?

Basically two games with own unique traditions each couldn't be compared.

I'm not the part of Thievery 2 team, and I think that using the same settings again isn't look very inventive.

Team Deathmatch with Stealth elements (this is Thievery gameplay) easily could be transferred to the more modern settings.

For example to the Kingpin: The Life of Crime.

Thief and Thievery is based on medieval theme partially.
And medieval game theme is so so spoiled nowadays.
There's not point to use swords and castles again and again.

Quote Posted by nbohr1more

1) Create Thief style assets (AI, Models, Animations, Sounds, Textures, etc)

It's dumb to create another Thief.

What would you say modeller and animator, if that would your own dev team?

"Sorry, guys, you must create another not unique model.
No. I can't promise you that such uninventive way could make you famous."

Repeat the same for Sound and Texture Artists, please.

Quote Posted by nbohr1more

"how hard is it for the average mapper to make new missions"?

Nice question... For you.

Quote Posted by nbohr1more

to do anything other than sculpt terrain in Crytech you will need to make models? You can't make buildings ... from editor brushes

Even in Thievery (10 years ago!) the building room could be done more faster and with the less amount of operations with the help of model making program.

Quote Posted by nbohr1more

If mappers also need to be modelers then that significantly reduces the possible map contributors to the project.

I doubt that mapper skill and modeler skill in one person is so rare occasion nowadays.

The enough amount of good playable maps in Thievery (at its beginning) were created by Thievery coders.
People who are able to create successful map concept and test prototype preciously.

You have no idea about Thievery as I see, so I'll tell you that its gameplay don't need big maps (this is multiplayer) - less work for any mapper.

The size of good map couldn't be too bigger comparing with the distance of sound propagation. In other case thieves enemies (guards) couldn't guard that map.

Quote Posted by nbohr1more

1) How much longer is this going to take than a hypothetical use of (anything from) TDM as a base?

For me personally it doesn't matter how much time some stuff will take.

As for deciding such question I'll say that such global tasks will take insane amount of time.

Obviously it's work for coder.

Thievery 2 has "luck" to have coder that was on his position from 15 Oct 2004 (!) -
(http://forums.blackcatgames.com/showpost.php?p=250520&postcount=1) .
Now this person is marked as just a "consultant" on Thievery 2 team page - (http://www.moddb.com/company/thievery2developers/members)
And Thievery community (still) don't have playable Thievery 2 release.
This could well describe how fast things work in some dev teams.

Quote Posted by nbohr1more

2) Will the mod die before it completes all that work?

Even without publishing here some insider information, anybody could check Thievery 2 forum web page - (http://www.moddb.com/games/thievery/forum)
I don't think that Thievery 2 devs want to take some additional responsibility and keep potential Thievery 2 players tuned at least with the help of own forum.
All that they give is the announce of the future release - (http://www.moddb.com/games/thievery/news/may-2013-update)
Guess who made this announce? It was retired Thievery 2 leader (!).
And this former leader was retired at the moment when this message were made by him (!).
Current Game leader didn't made such important announce himself. (maybe he's not very brave?)
But, hell, Thievery 2 had a lot "former leaders".
It's not so important which specific "former leader" made another "smart" thing (fail).

Quote Posted by nbohr1more

Will the mission editor be enticing enough to gain a decent amount of mission authors?

Once again, you don't know what is the Thievery Multiplayer.
From a billions of custom maps only 3-4 were playable.
Ofc responsibility for this goes to the Thievery Team.
Cos playable map for Thievery could create only talent and skillful mapper
or
mapper who had inside information from Thievery dev team (has private relations with the Thievery authors).

Quote Posted by nbohr1more

Will the Thievery 2 team (themselves) create all the missions (negating the need for question 2)?

Thievery 2 team made even worse decision.
They created tutorial for converting maps from Thievery to Thievery 2 -
(http://www.moddb.com/games/thievery/tutorials)
And they do this stupid thing (converting) themselves also.
Thanx god, all Thievery players gone to RL, so they wouldn't blame Thievery 2 for this.
Basically it will be not possible play Thievey 2 for Thievery player.
Cos map will be the same, but ...hm with better graphics.
I must to say that map knowledge is very very important in Thievery gameplay.
So oldschool player wouldn't be motivated to play the same "new" map.

Quote Posted by nbohr1more

Don't let anyone tell you that it can't be done. It just looks like a risky move from an outsider's perspective.

Well, having developers in Thievery 2 Team who even hasn't own gamedev portfolio each is enough risky.