Renault on 24/2/2011 at 00:49
Hey, is that a rifle on the back of that thief in the 2nd screenshot? :weird: I'm guessing there's not much of a stealth option for this mod.
piln on 24/2/2011 at 14:33
:erg: Bet oneofth8devilz is wishing he hadn't bothered... if you don't like the look of the mod, why not offer constructive criticism or just move on? There's no need to be a knob about it, all that does is make ttlg look bad.
One thing the authors should do, I think, is be more clear about what type of game this is aiming to be. It's all a bit vague... it shows its Thief DS influences plainly (nice 'Docks' homage in the vid ;) ) but the description doesn't really say anything about the type(s) of gameplay you're aiming for, and the vids so far make it look like a dungeon crawl/shooter in a Thief-like setting. People don't know what to expect, and I think you'll get a better reception if you spell it out.
Love the character animation, particularly the archery. The whole thing looks very nice, although I agree with NH in that the lighting is OTT for my tastes - I hope you're considering varying it a bit, as such a stylised approach can make every environment look the same. I have no idea if it's a game I'll want to play, but I hope to see it continue to completion.
jtr7 on 24/2/2011 at 19:38
Quote Posted by Brethren
What at you referring to? TDM? Or other more secret things? Because I don't see that this would relate to either one of those that much.
Coders, et al, are wrapped up in TDM and source code efforts. To split the groups further would just slow progress, which is always a factor that burns people out, so I hope people will just push for the finish lines already there, especially knowing that for each individual, those two projects are just one activity they are involved in. Personally, my bias leans toward those two projects, and while I have nothing against Thievious, I have less to be interested in than the others.:erg:
New Horizon on 24/2/2011 at 20:21
oneofth8devilz, just an observation.
The lighting in these maps could benefit from a 'world' ambient. Looks like you might be using one in the first screen shot, but the second one has the notorious Doom 3 pitch black shadows. You should contact Rebb at Doom 3 world for his fixed interaction shader. Then you'll be able to encase your level in a 'nofalloff' ambient light....at just a high enough level to lift the pitch black shadows. Then the rest of the level lights don't have to be cranked as high to see things.
nbohr1more on 24/2/2011 at 22:13
Those screens are from two different periods of the mod development (the second being an earlier version...). The first screen is using Sikkmod 1.0 shaders which includes Rebb's ambient code... (sore subject...)
I will make my personal observation about oneofthe8devil's work:
It seems that oneofthe8devils has collected a number of code portions from other authors and has adeptly combined them and augmented them. For long-suffering mod developers like TDM or Hexen EoC, his approach seems a little shallow or flippant but even his work takes a long time to come to fruition and requires a lot of his own code contribution compared to something like Source modding (etc) (especially for a modder who works primarily by himself). He has elevated himself above the typical "one-off" Doom 3 modder or "Ultimate Doom 3 Enhancement" modder in many ways. :sweat:
That said, he seems to be insecure about having his mod resemble Doom 3 and does as much with Bloom and shaders to show that the game has been "modded". In reality, he would probably be praised for making artistic changes if it were with Textures but that is an impossible expectation for the time-scale and "crew". Hexen EoC had a reasonably large crew and the custom texture asset creation is a big part of "why it took so long".
I just think that this obsession to change the look has gone a little too far lately and is not using the right tools to get there. He has heard comments like this (less tactful) over at Doom3world so he knows that his result has selected appeal. To me, it all seems a bit calculated though, because his other mods were praised for their departure from Doom 3 and similar visual crazies were part of the impression for your average joe gamer. Maybe it's his own preference but his latest work looks to me like "gimmick". :erg:
I found his original Thievious videos to be much more appealing even though the Bloom was also extreme, this config is just pure tinfoil coated sheen madness on everything. :confused:
Again, I wish him well and hope that something more comes of this. I just don't understand these latest changes???
(On an un-related note, I wish "TurkeyPuncher", the author of the "Serengrove" map, would show up and put his twisted stamp on a mission for either project. )
wonderfield on 25/2/2011 at 17:05
Quote Posted by Shadowhide
yeah mod looks good,but please rename it to anything thats not compared with thief
I'm not sure I understand why they would need to rename it. "Thievious" isn't actually a word, so the actual similarities between "Thief" and "Thievious" are purely cosmetic.
oneofthe8devilz on 26/2/2011 at 18:42
Actually I find the exchange of opinions here at the TTLG forums quite a refreshing change and as
nbohr1more correctly observes I am already used at taking quite an amount of heat on the other forums. I think we should not forget that we all have one thing in common... we like the Thief universe and the atmosphere that comes with it... People that start to criticize Thievious for the lack of content / detailed roadmap probably have not yet been a part of a total conversion project before. The amount of work and skill that has to flow into a successful multiplayer total conversion is way beyond your standard d3 ducttape mod :). It needs professional knowlege skills in "story design", "engine & network programming", "animation", "sound&music design", "modelling", "skinning" and "mapping". To assume that all these skills can be learned by a single person and that this person would be able to release it in a tolerable development time is either very naive or plain ignorant. And when you then also take into consideration that Thievious is not the only project I am currently working on but that there is also (
http://www.moddb.com/mods/mars-city-security) MCS, (
http://www.moddb.com/mods/modern-combat-operations1) MCO, (
http://www.moddb.com/mods/556mm-full-metal-jacket) FMJ, (
http://www.moddb.com/mods/d3-demonwars) DemonWars and a couple of other unannounced projects where the crew basically consists of just me, you start to get an idea why I am desperately looking for help since it is not like I am getting paid for the work I am doing (and even if I was it is simply technically not possible to process such an amount of work, at least for me). Of course I would like to start throwing around bold statements about what cool features Thievious will have and how fancy the gameplay will be but in I case have learned one thing in the past years of modding, it would be to stay realistic and to aim for achieveable goals in order to get your project done and released. Even getting to the place where we are now with our projects was quite an achievement and of course with every skilled member that joins the crew the work flow and dev time will greatly benefit from it.
One last thing about the visuals... since every single setting is made optional everyone that will play Thievious will be able to setup his very own visual configuration and with all the cvars that are available the combinations are infinitive... If you like bloom you can crank it up to a level where you need sunglasses, if you hate bloom you can disable it... it is just a simple as that and I never really understood why ppl would waste so much time discussing where there is too much or too few bloom in a given screenshot, same goes for any other effect like HDR, Ambient Light, MotionBlur etc... IMO the post processing is the last thing a fan of the project should worry about ... it will completely be up to him how he will visually experience the game...
But just the fact that there actually are people that understand what comes with making such projects and that understand that it is all about cooperation, learning and evolving makes all the efforts worth it :).
Neb on 26/2/2011 at 20:28
How do you manage to stretch yourself over that many projects?
I think what people want to see from a prototype are some simple game play mechanics - even if cobbled together as a proof of concept. The new videos (just like last years) look like you are privately basking in your progress, rather than showing something off in order to find potential players or recruits to help build the mod.
New Horizon on 26/2/2011 at 21:38
Quote Posted by oneofthe8devilz
IMO the post processing is the last thing a fan of the project should worry about ... it will completely be up to him how he will visually experience the game...
This comes down to a difference in design philosophy.
With TDM, the visuals are as important to us as the art direction, they are part of our art design. When we show new screen shots, we want to show players exactly what they're getting. We also feel that it is important for a mappers work to be seen as the mapper intended, and that includes the final visual experience.
You mention ambient lighting being left up to the player too but for Thief / TDM, games that depend on light and shadow, that's impossible. Ambient lighting affects the lightgem, which leads to broken gameplay since the AI depend on this as well. Yes, if the gameplay does not depend on ambient lighting, then it could be a player controlled option but not in a Thief type game.
If ambient lighting were simply being used as a visual effect it wouldn't matter, but for us it's an integral part of the gameplay mechanics.
