BEAR on 5/6/2006 at 21:00
That was great, I love to hear that perspective. Im afraid we were too harsh on thief3, but I think for the most part we understood what happened. It is too bad it had to end like that. Thanks alot for linking that, Im glad he understands what the game means, I sometimes wondered what they thought of the games and if we were beyond their expectations as far as fans go. Good to see that they see it for what it was to us.
I hope he can find good work, someone should recruit him for the dark mod, or at least tell him about it :idea:
sparhawk on 5/6/2006 at 21:12
Quote Posted by Vigil
in fact, I would think that most like me assumed that working with the TDM toolset wouldn't even be
possible before it was officially released.
It depends on what you want to do. You can already start to make missions in the editor, planning them and working on them, while we continue on the code base. It's not as if you really run into to much limits while you have to learn the editor anyway.
Goldmoon Dawn on 5/6/2006 at 23:58
Thinking about Randy again, (
http://www.ugo.com/channels/games/features/thief_deadlyshadows/interview.asp) this is Senior Producer, Paul Weaver:
Quote:
UGO: As with DX: IW, Thief is being developed simultaneously for the Xbox. What difficulties have arisen because of the differences between the console and the PC?
PAUL: It's a very fine line indeed to develop a game for the PC and console market and keep everyone happy. We have focused on creating a game that is true to the spirit of the original series, whilst creating the ability for the more action-orientated player to enjoy the game as much as the player who wants to treat it as a core stealth experience.
Who exactly made the decision that new players on the X-box wouldn't automatically want to play stealthily, like the original fans did? They had to make it action oriented because X-boxers can't handle stealth?
Quote:
UGO: What about Deadly Shadows are you most proud of?
PAUL: For me, I joined the team quite late in the development cycle and have ridden some rocky roads with them over this last few months as we fought to hit our release date. The element that I am most proud of is working with such a dedicated team, who have sweated blood and tears to create this title and have sacrificed everything in the last three years to make the best possible action stealth game they can.
Action Stealth Game. :p
Quote:
UGO: Was there anything in the planning stages that just wasn't feasible for the final product...despite it being incredibly tempting?
PAUL: There were too many ideas in the planning stages that we can't go into right here - They're all archived and ready for implementation should we ever do another game though...
Goldmoon Dawn on 6/6/2006 at 02:59
And now that I'm caught up, having read the thread, I've found a way to link Dark Mod and Randy Smith! :p
He has a nice (
http://www.roningamedeveloper.com/Index.html) website where he logs several speeches and invaluable texts of his on the essence of true Thief Stealthplay. It could serve as inspiration to fans of his from way back who also Dromed.
Btw, that picture up there is a link to an interview where Randy goes more in depth about the t3 situation. One of my favorites.
sparhawk on 6/6/2006 at 11:40
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
And now that I'm caught up, having read the thread, I've found a way to link Dark Mod and Randy Smith! :p
I don't get it.
Goldmoon Dawn on 6/6/2006 at 14:47
I see.
I read as far as deadman's first post when I posted these last couple. I hadn't realised that the thread was heading towards Dark Mod. No big deal, I try to stay amused with my own posting, so I tend to be less serious than most.
Not that the thread needed this, mind you.
Hmmm....
I wonder if Randy himself could contribute to Dark Mod!?!
sparhawk on 6/6/2006 at 14:58
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
I wonder if Randy himself could contribute to Dark Mod!?!
I thought the same. :) If he is as attached to thief as he claims to, I wonder wether he heard about us already. :)
Renault on 6/6/2006 at 17:09
Quote Posted by sparhawk
I thought the same. :) If he is as attached to thief as he claims to, I wonder wether he heard about us already. :)
You could always email him. I noticed his site (listed above) has an email address.
Randy on 6/6/2006 at 18:32
Hey guys,
Thanks as always for the interest and support! Glad you liked the interview. I’m being interviewed by Evil Avatar right now, and that will be a bit more penetrating into some of these topics. You should check over there, as I’m sure the interview will be released pretty soon.
Quote:
RS was pretty assertive with a design agenda at the same time the engine was giving them roadblocks left and right, time was pressing, and the two worlds just collided.
That is pretty much dead-on.
Quote:
…if he thinks in retrospect he should have held back for the better of the whole project, or if this situation was just a breakdown waiting to happen.
Both of these are pretty much true as well.
For my part, I was not just “assertive,” I was also “inflexible” and in my worst moments probably even “intractable”. This is especially bad given that I brought a naive “let’s do everything” mentality into the project, so some early scaling back was really called for.
As for the situation, there were technology woes, process woes, culture woes, you name it. I wasn’t the only one being stubborn; it was the kind of situation that could bring out bad qualities in everyone, sadly. Everyone had great things they wanted to contribute to the project and for which they felt like they needed to push, but the development environment really couldn’t support all of it. And I should clarify that it wasn’t a bitter end for me, really; I still think very fondly of the Thief series and the people I worked with at Ion Storm, top to bottom. There were people I was very angry with at the time, but seeing them well-liked and succeeding in new development environments makes it clear that the challenging situation was the root problem. And despite all the setbacks and difficulties, it was very cool to watch the team rise up and work hard to make good things happen. I think Thief: DS pulls a few things off better than the predecessors, although as I mentioned I really need to go back and play it to confirm/challenge my perspective.
Quote:
So, nobody was working on the new groundbreaking engine that Thief3 was supposed to run on?
Actually, everyone BUT Terri and I were working on that.
Quote:
yes, the game was rushed. Many of the game systems feel unpolished and the game overall feels like a beta version to me
Well, it had a 3+ year development cycle, which is sufficient by nearly any standards. So “rushed” might not quite be the right word. It’s way more about how we made use of our time. There were some particularly serious challenges during our Alpha cycle (or maybe just that’s when our situation became more apparent), such as extremely long build turn around times, which made it hard to iterate and improve like you hope to during Alpha, and which is probably one contributor to the lack of polish you perceived.
Thanks again and stay tuned for the Evil Avatar piece.
- R
