Herr_Garrett on 9/1/2009 at 07:43
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
I usually only hear bad comments about Wikipedia from people who don't see their own opinion engraved there. :p Oh, I just wanted to even increase the number of cities instead of leaving them out.Region.Field.Ah, three cities, however all of them are destroyed or abandoned at the time of LotR, just because you mocked Osgiliath :p.Regions.A town, after all.I didn't find the last one. And I used the Tolkien Wiki, just in case you need that to prove me wrong. :p
Now... Pelennor is not just a 'field'. I guess you've read RoTK, and there it's described as a rich "countryside" sort of thing, full of farms, homesteads, etc. Even ex-Númenoreans have to eat...:D
Lebennin? In the scene when the soldiers march into Minas Tirith and Pippin and Bergil watch them, we see "the hardy fisher-folk of Lebennin", if I'm not mistaken.
Dol Amroth destroyed? So where does Imrahil come from...? Erech - when the Grey Company descends from Erech, it's written that people in the villages and towns hid from them. Pelargir? No, not really. It
would have been destroyed, yes, by the Corsairs, but we all know what happened to the Corsairs.:cheeky:
Ithilien? Read the description Faramir gives to Frodo about Ithilien. Edhellond, or Edhellonde is the second greatest town in Dol Amroth (which is a region, too...) after Dol Amroth, and as the name shows, it once was the harbour of the Elves. Now it's a city, situated at the estuary of Morthond-Ringló (a bit east from Langstrand, or Belfalas, if you have a map.) About Anórien we know that the Woses at the very least dwelt there, and some other folk, too, in time of peace.
I'm sorry, it's not my opinion, but Tolkien's...:cheeky: It's just that it'd be a bit like saying that New York state is only New York.
Anyway. I think we're really off-topic now, so could we continue this, mayhaps, through PMs? :cheeky:
Beleg Cúthalion on 9/1/2009 at 08:25
Heh, I just hope you got my point after all. Tolkien was a little busier than other authors I guess but if I'm not mistaken I've already seen other worlds with this lack of "completeness".
Herr_Garrett on 9/1/2009 at 13:37
So, to return: is this possible that the Keepers are only present in the City because the City is the "centre" of the Thief-universe, where everything culiminates (sort of like Ankh-Morpork on the Discworld)? Maybe the City acts like a heavy weight on a rubber sheet, hmmm? Or rather, to my mind a drain; but nevertheless, the function is the same.
hexhunter on 9/1/2009 at 18:01
The mystery behind the City is one reason why Thief has been such an involving and interesting series. We can't really say it's the centre of the Thief world though because we know of very few places outside of it...
Back on the first page there was talk of the Kurshok, the wiki needs updating on this but this site is packed full of info from the games, I don't think it's too speculative, and it's good at uniting the history of the city which gets revealed in the back stories, like the Precursors and Karath-Din.
(
http://www.omegacron.com/games/thief/library/kurshok.htm)
(
http://www.omegacron.com/games/thief/)
Beleg Cúthalion on 9/1/2009 at 21:05
Don't know in how far the old Camelot concept still lives in it. Jtr...?
jtr7 on 9/1/2009 at 23:06
Mainly in generalities which were built upon and readily modified once the Thief concept took hold and caught fire.
-Bad guy as the good guy.
-The sword and bow as primary weapons.
-Dark as a euphemism for evil.
-Unhistorical Medieval/Legend.
-Wizards.
-A Lady of the Lake/Forest offering a mystical sword.
You get the idea. There are tidbits in the game files that seem to be a holdover though the in-game usage is too different, now. I haven't made a list, yet, but I'll make sure to take notes from now on. I usually find stuff when I'm looking for something else.:laff:
all on 10/1/2009 at 08:39
Quote Posted by jtr7
Mainly in generalities which were built upon and readily modified once the Thief concept took hold and caught fire.
Where can I learn more about Dark Camelot?
jtr7 on 10/1/2009 at 09:35
Mostly in the archived forums and archived copies of the old Dark Project promo sites.
Use TTLG's search function and search for "Dark Camelot" in quotes to get started. Search for the term on this page:
(
http://www.ttlg.com/thief/html/exclusive.htm)
Quote Posted by Tim Stellmach
It evolved over the course of many months. Originally, we were thinking of concentrating mainly on swordfighting as our core gameplay. We toyed with a "Dark Camelot" idea where Arthur was the bad guy and you played Modred. And Modred was this kinda sneaky little guy. Interest in the Camelot theme didn't take off, but by the time we bagged it the Modred concept had evolved into such a rogue that we went straight from there into the Thief game. A lot of this, of course, came from System Shock, where it's all pretty hairy, and you aren't really a killing machine, so you have to do a lot of ducking around and playing it tactically kind of commando-style.
You may come across references to the game concept they had even before "Dark Camelot", called "Better Red Than Undead." Neither concept was acceptable to the Marketing guys. From an (
http://gillen.cream.org/wordpress_html/?p=676) interview with Kieron Gillen:
Quote Posted by Doug Church
Actually, it started as a communist zombie game, but that didn’t get very far past Marketing. Then it became Dark Camelot, which was our reverse Arthurian fiction where King Arthur was a bad guy, and Merlin was this time traveller from the future and you were Mordredd the black Knight trying to save the setting. And Guineverre was a cool butch dyke. But our Marketing department… well, not buying any of it. We wanted to do that storyline as we wanted to do something that was more high concept and arch and arty and all that – but I can understand why our Marketing department didn’t buy that. We wanted to make a story-driven game, but action-orientated – but the more we worked on it, the more the other ideas weren’t quite working out. It was a more organic approach than Underworld and Shock.
There's more, of course, but this is pretty much the gist of the concept. You can find bits and pieces to make the story more fleshed out.
Thor on 10/1/2009 at 11:52
Speaking about the factions and it's comparisons, i agree more or less. Good, evil and neutral factions, they seem to represent our human souls in some way. Not sure about that, but eh. I'm more of a Garrett. xD
But then again...
Quote Posted by van HellSing
I still maintain there's norse mythology in there. A righteous god whose attribute is a hammer on one side, [..]
Dear me, i am the Builder!
P.S. This post might be terribly off, since the last couple of posts have really seemed to have gotten elsewhere. If so, never mind me.
