catbarf on 3/2/2010 at 23:08
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
What exactly are you talking about here? The Predator sections in AVP1? If so, that's not how I remember it at all.
Marine.
Quote Posted by Wormrat
Yeah, I hate it when my first-person shooters are fast-paced and let me aim accurately.
This doesn't make a lot of sense to me for similar reasons. Because your input is so limited in an FPS like this, the only way to have frenetic, panicked action that tests your reflexes and nerves is to up the speed. Maybe
AvP goes a little too far in the
Quake direction, but the other extreme would be awful: imagine how slow a realistic
Rainbow Six-style
AvP would play out. Those kinds of games are not without tension, but they're definitely more cerebral and Chess-like, relying on planning and tactical positioning rather than
oh shit kill it run run run.
I guess it would be realistically like the movie. You can play as the guy who got ambushed and died or the other guy that got ambushed and died.
It's one thing to have fast, dangerous enemies. It's another thing entirely to go zipping around the maps blasting everything in the way at Doom-like speeds. It's unrealistic and cartoony, both elements that kill any kind of tension or scare immediately.
You can have a game with tense, scary moments that don't require both enemies and player to move at incredible speeds. Do you think there is no possibility of the new AvP being frightening simply because it's slower-paced?
Edit: Have you played Afraid of Monsters? The player is slow, the enemies are VERY fast, and it is an extremely scary game because it juxtaposes creeping dread with frenetic combat.
june gloom on 3/2/2010 at 23:11
Afraid of Monsters is my new standard for scary, though it should be noted that only the zombies are really fast. And even then, they're just the regular HL1 zombie AI, sped up, so they're not exactly running at you L4D style, they look like they're walking/shuffling normally but on fastforward. Which is actually scarier.
catbarf on 3/2/2010 at 23:59
Quote Posted by Wormrat
Please explain to me how realism is related to tension. "Cartoony" is a matter of style, and is more an issue for immersion and/or real
horror, but AvP is clearly more about the "jump" scare.
Other games have done jump scares, and don't need the player or the enemies to move quickly. In Doom 3, you're slow, and all the enemies are slow, and it still pulls of jump scares. Same thing with Dead Space- you are a lumbering hulk, and the enemies have a tendency to shuffle slowly (sprinting only occasionally), and it
still is shocking when one bursts out of a vent screaming.
Quote Posted by Wormrat
And the thing is, even though you're super fast and accurate in AvP, you're still not overpowered. You make it sound like you can zip around racking up easy headshots and chained kills. It's not like that at all.
That is true, it is an incredibly difficult game.
Quote Posted by Wormrat
As for
Afraid of Monsters: Movement in HL1 is already pretty fast. Was it slower in AoM? I don't remember. In any case, I didn't say all games have to be super fast-paced; I was explaining the important of reflexes and player skill
if the tension is derived from startling, dangerous combat. Of course you could do an entire redesign--but that would be admitting that player speed isn't the real problem. And, I don't think AoM really fits that mold, despite all the shooting you do.
I'm arguing that a fast pace makes the game seem unrealistic and harder to find scary as a result, you're arguing that it's necessary to produce tension and jump scares rather than creeping horror. AoM is an example of a game where you are not encouraged to move quickly, where it's often better to take your time, and yet is still both very tense and scary in both the action and the lulls between fights.
Quote Posted by Wormrat
As for the new AvP, well... from the footage on youtube, I'd say it violates the videogame equivalent of "show, don't tell," but I'll save that for the other thread.
Granted.
All in all, I found AvP2 to be a much scarier game. There's no sprinting around, circle-strafing aliens as they attack you, and I can play the game by taking my time and slowly creeping forward, with tension coming from the ping of the motion tracker even before I see an enemy.
I'm not saying AvP is bad, just not scary. It's tense, but primarily through infuriating difficulty and lack of savegames. It's alright as a shooter, but if I want a fast-paced fragfest I'd rather be playing Serious Sam.
Shadowcat on 4/2/2010 at 07:11
If any of you enjoy speed-running, it just occurred to me that with this AvP re-release, I could resurrect the highly unpopular <a href="http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48226">TTLG Aliens vs Predator "Waterfall" challenge</a> :)
EvaUnit02 on 4/2/2010 at 10:33
The irony of this discussion is that people on Steam's AvP3 forum are moaning that the marine moves too slowly, even when sprinting (which you can only do in short bursts).
Actually I've heard similar idiotic complaints on TTLG about other modern action games, eg from the likes of Bikerdude. "THERE'S NO ALWAYS RUN OPTION IN DEAD SPACE. I HAD TO TAPE DOWN MY SHIFT KEY, BAWWWWW."
june gloom on 4/2/2010 at 12:43
Hahaha Bikerdude's big steaming dump about Dead Space was one of the classier moments this forum has had.
Nameless Voice on 4/2/2010 at 18:47
Wait, he complained about the lack of running speed over the lack of aiming speed?
june gloom on 4/2/2010 at 18:49
He complained about a lot of things, and when people told him the obvious- "uh yes you can use melee" and "uh the option is available in the menu" he completely ignored it and continued to complain.
Nameless Voice on 4/2/2010 at 18:51
Well, shouldn't let a good complain be ruined by people pointing out that it's not true. It takes the fun out of it.
