To taffers that have used the Novice Keeper's Lexicon

jtr7 on 16/7/2007 at 04:50

I don't see any compelling reason to contact Larris since I can find no references to the names beyond his list and the many copies of it around.

I have been wondering about the differences in the names, plotlines, poems, etc. in the non-English versions. We've seen how different the German translation could be in the briefing texts.

He did an interview for Dragon Lance Underground, but I don't know the date of it, yet:
(http://www.dragonlanceunderground.com/features/interviews/larris.asp) http://www.dragonlanceunderground.com/features/interviews/larris.asp

He's got a LiveJournal account, last entry Dec. 17, 2003:
(http://larris.livejournal.com/profile?mode=full) http://larris.livejournal.com/profile?mode=full

As for Digi.... Hmmm. If I had reason to believe he could e-mail me the source files, I'd contact him. I'll wait until he gets back from Japan at the end of the month. Although, maybe he could provide more information about the Lexicon than what he wrote the day he posted it at TheCircle.

Solabusca on 16/7/2007 at 08:40

Yes, I found the other sites after you revealed the name (stupid of us not to check the archives, but what can you do?)

In some ancient TTLG posts he's listed as a former moderator. I'm sure you also saw his email addy listed; whether it's current, or whether The Magpie is still even active, alive, or involved with any sort of online activity is completely unknown.

I'd say ask Digi when he returns; or perhaps send off a quick email to Larris; it's how I got the Thief World Map Project brought back on line (twice), and how I notified Digi and co. that Mark was looking for someone to take over.

[Oddly enough, a bit of digging now reveals that Googling the Thief World Map Project brings my del.icio.us link up as one of the top three links - and Googling it as a direct quote brings up a thread started by you about it in 2003...:)]

.j.

jtr7 on 16/7/2007 at 09:45

Heh heh heh.

You know, sola'...since you're pretty successful at corresponding and getting things done...would you be willing to do it? I have little confidence in my abilities as an effective communicator when corresponding with strangers. I've had some crummy experiences that left me feeling like I wanted to become a hermit.:D And this way you'll get that itch scratched for the benefit of all.

And everyone knows I ramble.

When Digi comes back, I'll drop him a line, though, since I know he knows about the names lists and encyclopaedia project.

I wonder why Larris left? I wonder why his nick doesn't pop up in the archives? A falling out, perhaps?

Digital Nightfall on 16/7/2007 at 14:11

Well, I am not really "Gone" per say, I just don't have Internet access as regularly as I would if I were at home (I can usually get on at least once every few days).

You know, I am glad you discovered what you did - I always regretted not keeping better records about that document - including who first made it. I am a bit disappointed that he would include made-up stuff in there, but as far as I know, he made that clear from the start and I just forgot.

So if I understand things correctly, the best answer I may have for you is "I don't remember" ... which is an awful answer, I know, but the most honest one I have.

I want to hear more about the names list and encyclopedia project!

jtr7 on 16/7/2007 at 18:05

Hey, Digi!:cool:

Yeah, I know you're around but I figured you didn't have access to all your Thiefy files, nor the time to delve into them so deeply. I know how much time I've killed just hunting down what I could. I certainly didn't want to take away from your time in Japan. But I thank you for addressing this.

I know how important the Lexicon is. We've just moved beyond it with our work on the Encyclopaedia and in simply verifying the sources of the names. it's been discovered how embellished it's been all along. It was cleverly done. It was an important reference during the previous years when I didn't have my own copies of the games, or a computer to play them on.

For various reasons, we want to keep the project on the down-low until we reach a critical point, and then we'll share.

All those speculation threads I've started were to get new perspectives on things so I could expand my thoughts beyond just my own. It'd never occured to me that Garrett probably talks with Constantine in Viktoria's apartment. And you shared that thought in the thread about the 8 objects on the mantlepiece during the "proposal" cutscene.

In the meantime, here's the Master List I've compiled over the years. The earliest version was where I copied from and pasted into the All the Names in Thief thread to help bukary. It's grown quite a bit since then, with many deletions, embarrassing accidental omissions, and frustrating additions slowing things down. The List itself is more like an index now. And it's been color-coded. It's roughly 95% complete, definitely not 100% of the names are included.

(http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=allpagesnameslistkf7.png)

Inline Image:

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/4576/allpagesnameslistkf7.th.png

jtr7 on 16/7/2007 at 18:45

A small example.

Here's what the Lexicon says:
"Brennan: Former servant of Ramirez. Last seen in a wagon, screaming."

Here's what this site...(http://www.omegacron.com/games/thief/library/individuals.htm) http://www.omegacron.com/games/thief/library/individuals.htm
...which credits Larris for the original source, says:
"Brennan: Former servant of Ramirez. Killed by command of Ramirez for embezzling funds."

Here's the transcripts of the source files:
sv1c1901: "What happened to young Brennan? I saw the wagon carrying him away, howling like to curl your hair."
sv2c1902: "One of the bosses beasties caught him in the cellar, tore off his arm! He's lucky to be alive!"
sv1c1903: "You couldn't lure me down there for any price."

Thankfully, the Lexicon is the more accurate one, in this case.

inselaffe on 16/7/2007 at 19:04

What the hell, I don't remember that from assassin's - was it some unused conversation files or something?

Solabusca on 16/7/2007 at 23:39

Quote Posted by jtr7

Another interesting flub (existing in both the Lexicon and the updated document in (http://www.omegacron.com/games/thief/library/individuals.htm) the Keeper's Compound is the use of The Wall as an area. I remember when you sorted this out in the Mapping thread.

Oh, and I dropped a line to Larris; cross fingers and hope he responds.

.j.

jtr7 on 17/7/2007 at 00:46

Cool! Thanks!

(fingers crossed)

And, actually, I'm at a point where I could do a full write up on what's right and wrong about the Lexicon. I am tempted, heh heh, but The E.T.U. is the priority, now. I'm back to transcribing all the TMA files that contain actual words. Much like deadman's very useful Gold transcriptions.

I was glad to see that Sneaksie Thiefsie had "DeWall" instead of "the Wall" in his treatises. I don't know yet who first used that spelling, but since it's never really been contested--at least, not successfully--this is the spelling we're going with.

"DuWal", "DeWahl"? Nah!

Ha ha ha! There's a "Dan DeWall" near Thief River Falls. That decides it for me. LOL!

Jah on 17/7/2007 at 12:04

Quote Posted by Dan Knott

What the hell, I don't remember that from assassin's - was it some unused conversation files or something?

I just played Assassins a couple of days ago, and I remember hearing that conversation. I think it's between the two guards in the courtyard, but I could be wrong.