Tom Chick Thief podcast

ZylonBane on 18/3/2011 at 20:15

Over at the Quarter to Three forums, Tom Chick runs an occasional podcast where he spends an hour or so chatting with a lucky forum member. In the most recent one, the conversation turned toward Thief.

(http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2011/03/17/qt3-games-podcast-frank-austin-and-thief/)

Gaming discussion starts at 0:55. Thief discussion kicks in about five minutes later.

theBlackman on 19/3/2011 at 01:08

Quote Posted by ZylonBane

Here is a link to an edited version that starts at the THIEF discussion.

LINK removed 04-12-11

On the page it will be at the left under the photo. You can download the file if you want to keep it.

jtr7 on 19/3/2011 at 07:22

Thanks guys!

LordBafford on 21/3/2011 at 12:35

great podcast thanks

RarRar on 21/3/2011 at 19:30

That was fun. Listening really took me back to the good old days.

In addressing the perspective theme at the beginning of the interview, normally I'd say the 3rd person view wouldn't bother me. It's a personal choice and unlike the guy in the podcast I was never tempted to switch to 3rd person for the sake of a cheap lean. But in the very specific case of TDS, 3rd person DID completely ruin the game for me. The weird sideways lurching problem was a direct result of the camera attachment done to support 3rd person. I had decided to go back and replay TDS a year or two ago and found the lurching so annoying (after falling off a beam I was balancing on) I simply couldn't make myself go past the first level.

sjb5001 on 29/3/2011 at 02:31

What a nostalgic conversation.

I remember getting a demo disc with Thief and a couple other games and playing the training mission and Bafford's Manor over and over....at least a couple hundred times. It's by far my favorite mission in the series.

I agree with their stance on a 3rd person perspective for Thief. It just doesn't work for the Thief series because it ruins the immersion factor and strategy. What good is a stealth game if you can simply pan around corners without taking any risk? When I played Deadly Shadows, instead of being Garrett, I thought I was playing Garrett, and those are two totally different feelings. I felt more disconnected from the Thief world. In a game such as Oblivion or Fallout 3, you automatically assume your character is whatever you make it and it's fun to be the eye looking in. In the Thief series, you're the eye of Garrett and nothing else. You're submerged in his situation and must think like a master thief by assessing sights, sounds and other patterns. Breaking away from that and becoming a 3rd person eliminates the need to think like a thief and it becomes 'just a game'.

I don't play Thief 1 and 2 after over a decade because I can ogle at an avatar, cheat the system so I know when a guard will pass, or gather the most loot in less time. I continue to play because I get satisfaction from creeping around unseen, but always with that fearful, excited sensation of not knowing when I'll get caught.

....and because DromEd is a godsend ;)

Albert on 12/4/2011 at 23:10

Couldn't agree more. That, and it seems that Thief is such a perfect balance of art design and gaming, that I almost feel like I'm in a real world, if not a very menacing one... Really digs deep for me.

I feel the immersion of TDP just wasn't there; even if you could have a first-person on PC, it still felt awkward because of how you controlled garrett like you were playing some far-off person tugging him by a rope, rather being in control directly of him.

And just to nitpick a little further, I absolutely love the mantling in the first 2 thief games. That may be my real apprehension to TDM, but that's nothing a little modification can't solve, I'm hoping...

But overall, this conversation between the two is absolutely enlightening as to why the thief games just clicked so well. It wasn't simply an A>B killing spree, it was an any-way-you-want-it-as-long-as-you-complete-objectives sort of thing, that games like Half-Life and Deus Ex; yes, even another few games I love, couldn't quite achieve.

New Horizon on 13/4/2011 at 00:21

Quote Posted by Albert

That may be my real apprehension to TDM, but that's nothing a little modification can't solve, I'm hoping.

What do you mean? Our mantling was one of the first things that players said was a vast improvement.

jtr7 on 13/4/2011 at 00:54

Specific and duplicateable examples are necessary to determine exactly what needs attention to improve matters.

piln on 13/4/2011 at 10:34

Quote Posted by Albert

I feel the immersion of TDP just wasn't there; even if you could have a first-person on PC, it still felt awkward because of how you controlled garrett...

ascottk's (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105502) GarrAT anim tweaks help a lot - with them, leaning works again and actually becomes useful in the game. Doesn't fix everything, TDP's lumpen movement will always be a problem, but it's a definite improvement.

Quote:

And just to nitpick a little further, I absolutely love the mantling in the first 2 thief games. That may be my real apprehension to TDM, but that's nothing a little modification can't solve, I'm hoping...

I'm absolutely baffled by this comment. All three official games have problems with mantling; TDM's mantling is a dream come true.