Top ten things u would like to change about Deus Ex

oneshotnokill on 12/9/2000 at 04:50

What are the top ten things u wise you clould change about Deus ex

Grundbegriff on 12/9/2000 at 07:40

Quote:

Originally posted by oneshotnokill:
What are the top ten things u wise you clould change about Deus ex

* Have someone rigorously left-brained go through the logic of the outcome tree to ensure that continuity errors (such as the reappearance of Maggie Chow at Versalife if she's been killed in her apartment) do not occur.
* Reward non-lethal tactics, which really are quite an accomplishment in some of the scenarios.
* Fix the bug that causes Navarre to think Denton's a brutal manslayer merely for entering Castle Clinton through the front door, since Denton might do so while playing in a non-lethal style.
* Fix the bug that generates THE CUBE (see (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000435.html) this thread for info).
* Make the levels somewhat brighter (and then encourage the player to turn down the brightness if they're supposed to be shadowy). With my Voodoo 3 3000 AGP gamma'd up and piping full brightness code into a new MAG monitor, I ought not to have to squint and flashlight my way through so much of the game.
* Add more variety to the guard chatter. I'm tired of hearing about "the briefing" while they "check their six"....

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* Crank down the power-consumption of some of the augs. It's a nice reward to find one or upgrade one. It's a let-down to enjoy the thrill of its power for only 30 seconds!
* Extend the duration of some of the more laughable equipment: tech goggles (don't blink, or you'll miss the boost!), certain kinds of body armor, and perhaps even flares.
* Allow Denton to pick up a body without having to spend two minutes wrangling inventory. Major anti-immersion factor.
* Require the hacking of computers to occur unobserved. Hacking right before a computer's main user without adverse consequences is bizarre, and the oddity is only underscored by having some NPCs (such as the UNATCO guards) but not others react to Denton's probing ("Uhmmm...that's against protocol, agent").

I can think of a few others, but these are the greatest irritants!

Peevishly,

G.

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[This message has been edited by Grundbegriff (edited September 12, 2000).]

Bogeyman on 12/9/2000 at 10:11

Add an option to pick up bodies that still have items on them - no emptying of your inventory to pick up a corpse that attacked you with a flamethrower when alive etc.

Azal on 12/9/2000 at 11:19

• I'll add my voice to Grundbegriff's and Bogeyman's - I carried around the Dragon's Tooth for most of the game so that I could gib bodies that would otherwise just lie there in the middle of a street just because they were carrying a $%^&* combat knife and I had a full inventory.

• Make hitting someone with tranq darts, stun gun or the baton not count as a kill. I tranq'ed Castle Clinton without a single fatality, but still Denton bragged about how he 'cleaned the place out.'

• Castle Clinton again: If I climb up onto the roof and stand over the entrance and let off a few nonlethal shots with my pistol so that all the NSA run out to slaughtered by Navarre, I take the credit/blame for their deaths.

• Also (again as Grundbegriff mentioned) having some base light value above zero would be good. With level 4 vision augs or a night vision visor I want to be able to see into shadows rather than making the augs almost completely renundant by having to light up a flare or my headlights to see in the dark.

eg - Try sneaking around the back of the barracks at the Silo and you can't see anything, despite it being night time in a desert-type environment. Light a flare to see where you're going and you'll end up with a doberman chewing on your arse.

• Make some decisions fatal. As far as I can tell you can do anything in the game as long as it involves somehow completing the mission objectives.
- I've run around killing UNATCO agents whenever I can find one who isn't invulnerable and didn't even get a smack on the wrist when I returned to base;
- I knifed every police officer I've ever seen in the game, but noone seems to care;
- I cleaned out the Underworld Tavern with a flame thrower (except for Jock who is immortal) and all Manderley said was that he never wanted to see it happen again. So, of course, I went a killed every civillian I could find from that point on but he didn't say another word;
- leave the bomb where it is and you only miss out on a few skill points (I think you get some if you find it). Rather than just riding off into the sunset, I want to see a great big explosion if the payer is too thick to miss all of the great big hints thrown at them;
- If I kill Dowd's maid and henchman when I visit his home, shouldn't he get at least a little annoyed?
- I even killed all the triads in the bar (except for the Boss) and their colleagues in the compound (again, except for the Boss and Tracer) yet if I hide for a couple of minutes, they want to be friends again and walk past their slain comrades' smouldering bodies without a care in the world except to tell me that "Tong is very pleased with you"
(I cracked up when one of them said that to me. Well, he was standing next to the charred corpses of two of his friends and a dog at the time)

• Just because a small crate happens to have a tiny, tiny, tiny key sitting on it shoud not prevent me from picking it up if I have level 4 arm strength.

• If I shoot someone from a great distance, every AI in the area should not miraculously know where I am hiding.
<img src="http://www.ttlg.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif" length="1" height="1" alt="

[This message has been edited by Azal (edited September 12, 2000).]

Grundbegriff on 12/9/2000 at 13:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Azal:
• Make hitting someone with tranq darts, stun gun or the baton not count as a kill. I tranq'ed Castle Clinton without a single fatality, but still Denton bragged about how he 'cleaned the place out.'

Right. I went non-lethal, low-tech too. I believe it's not the use of tranqs, prod, and baton that counts as a kill. Instead, I believe that no matter what you do, going through the entryway to Castle Clinton triggers a state notation to the effect that you engaged in a frontal assault and the game assumes that this entailed killing.

That's what I meant in my reference to Castle Clinton. Did you pass through the front portal, taking out the inner patrol with tranqs as I did?

Quote:

• Castle Clinton again: If I climb up onto the roof....and let off a few nonlethal shots...so that all the NSA run out to slaughtered by Navarre, I take the credit/blame for their deaths.

Weird. I didn't try that (though kudos for the great idea), but I wonder whether it again has to do with passing the portal of CC (this time, over it).

Quote:

• Make some decisions fatal. As far as I can tell you can do anything in the game as long as it involves somehow completing the mission objectives.

Excellent idea. In the end, the fact that no truly negative consequences ever arise, combined with the variety of ways in which tasks can be accomplished, makes the game feel rather easy, and therefore vaguely tedious in the midst of such brilliant technology and object-rich design.

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walk past their slain comrades' smouldering bodies without a care in the world except to tell me that "Tong is very pleased with you"

Oops! That's pretty funny. O Continuity Team....

Quote:

• If I shoot someone from a great distance, every AI in the area should not miraculously know where I am hiding.

Yes, that Quakish feel doesn't fit with the subtlety of other aspects of the game. A better solution would be that any AI who encounters the body of a comrade will never calm all the way down to 'unalerted' status again.

Good ideas, Azal.

Cheers,

G.

[This message has been edited by Grundbegriff (edited September 12, 2000).]

Absynthe on 12/9/2000 at 14:36

I like the ideas so far:

My only complaint was that I felt the stealth aspects were not developed as well as they could be. It seemed too easy to make a minor mistake and then have they entire base/castle/condo go on alert. Getting caught by guards you never saw or areas that that are impossible to enter without setting off alarms upsets the Thief in me. :-)

Also, given how hard it is to knock someone down by non-lethal means it should be given a reward or incentive as opposed to killing everyone.

--Absynthe

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CheesyPoof on 12/9/2000 at 20:11

I agree that they need to improve the inventory management system and picking up bodies. No only does not being able to pick up a body piss me off, but picking up stuff when I have a free slot that I don't need/want. This happens with my current character since I don't want melee/pistol weapons I am constantly dropping pistols and knives and bataons (hey, my gep gun, sniper rifle, assault rifle and sawed off shotgun take up a lot of room). I don't see why you could set it up so that JC won't pick up certain items from dead bodies, i.e. cigs/weapons. I hope if enough of us say something about it Ion will listen.

What else don't I like? Hhmm. I think enviromental upgrades need to be worked on. Did anyone use these? Apart from thermocapo and the rebreather in Hong Kong I think these are the most under utilitized objects in the game. Why can't the armor act like it does in every other game and just wear away based on how much it is shot at? Of course at higher skill levels it would take more damage (from JC's ability to wear it correctly) and last longer (JC knows how to take care of it after a fire fight to make minor repairs). For rebreathers and hazard suits, they can be turned on/off by the player. The only thing which shouldn't be used in that manner is the thermocampo as that would make it too powerful.

I hated greasels. Just hated them. With my rifle skill at master it took more than 1 shot to the back of the head to kill them. I understand it's some wierd alien or geneticly created animal, but they are as small as a rabbit. One shot to the back of the head should killem.

I didn't like smuggler charging me an arm and a leg for lams to blow up the tanker. I mean, come on, what costs to cover when yer gonna be dead. I showed him though, I didn't warn him about the raid so he died.

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http://www.ttlg.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif Ok, I will admit thats nothing to really complain about but I wanted to metion it.

Thats all I can think of for now. If I have more I will surly post them.

CP

iCEE on 12/9/2000 at 23:56

There are a few things that I would like to see changed, but one change woud cover the most of them... Another Engine. I didn't like the Unreal Engine much, although I have to admit it wasn't all that bad. But I think the game would be a lot better if it was made with the Dark Engine (Thief The Dark Project, System Shock 2 e.d.). I know that it would be difficult getting the Dark Engine, but it would be cool if Deus Ex 2 could be made with that engine.

RNJBOND on 13/9/2000 at 00:13

I think that it would be really cool if they had better conversations. Imagine seeing two guards nearby while you're hiding in the shadows. Maybe if they start talking about normal stuff. You know like, "So, what did you last night?" or "Hey, you want to see something cool?" or "Hey, watch me Rocket Jump!" Ok, maybe not that last one, but "normal" conversations would be better.

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VOID38 on 13/9/2000 at 04:20

I would have liked to have seen better AI. Anyone take notice of the way the NSF guys run around at the Battery Park subway?

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