EdGann on 22/9/2000 at 12:33
Uhhh, ION Storm is making Thief 3, so they already have rights to the Dark Engine.
Quote:
Originally posted by Kyrian:
Well hey, just get Ion Storm to get the Dark Engine from Eidos or whoever has the rights now and then update it so it runs better. The principle behind it was what made it so good, and was the reason why Thief sold so well.Kyrian on 22/9/2000 at 13:25
Hmmm, I thought Eidos were being irritating and witholding the rights. With LGS having been part of Eidos, I assumed they had rights to it. Must've missed something somewhere...
EdGann on 22/9/2000 at 14:16
Check it out
(
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/ubb/Forum20/HTML/000293.html) http://www.ttlg.com/forums/ubb/Forum20/HTML/000293.html
Quote:
Originally posted by Kyrian:
Hmmm, I thought Eidos were being irritating and witholding the rights. With LGS having been part of Eidos, I assumed they had rights to it. Must've missed something somewhere...oRGy on 16/4/2001 at 17:10
Uhh, the Dark Engine is dead. As is the Siege engine, it's sucessor.
Moan about the performance of the Unreal engine all you want - on my Voodoo3, the framerate was typically about 15fps, so I know what it's like - but the fact remains that the ISA team couldn't have made Deus Ex properly in any other 3d engine available at the time.
The Dark Engine, for example, can't really handle outdoor enviorns very well, with large draw distances and so forth, due to its technique of face/texture rendering - eg, try to recreate X51 in DromEd and you'll see what I mean.
The Quake series is similar, but even more limited as regards sheer size of levels - though this could have been gotten round by subdivididing each level even further (an annoying tactic, I find). I suspect the reason ISA didn't consider Quake, though, is that the toolkit was very simple and underdeveloped for the sort of game they were creating - whereas Unreal's UnrealScript scripting system, editor, and so forth, are easier to tailor for a deep game such as Deus Ex. Just look at the amount of augmentations the Quake I engine had to undergo for Half-Life, and HL is still at heart a simple Quake 2 clone.
As for the engine being to blame for its lack of sneakiness and such, I must disagree. The relative shoddiness of AI is purely down to rushed/whatever implementation by the programmers. I assume Mr. Spector decided that the AI was adequate to the job as it stands, and as such, upgrading it to Thief-level standards was a waste of time
Now, in my opinon, the game could have done with a lot of tweaks to the engine - skeletal animation, for instance, would have added a lot to the realism and variety of animations, and saved on lots of memory; but, they didn't. I wouldn't have a beef with using the Unreal 2/Warfare/6** build engine for Deus Ex 2, though, now they have experience with it.
Err, and yes, I know I'm a tedious bore.
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Lead Designer, (
http://www.ttlg.com/thievery) Thievery UT
Zaphod on 16/4/2001 at 18:28
Here's my big two cents:
1. The AI was kinda dumb.
2. There wasn't enough stealth.
3. The "role-playing" aspects of the game were paltry. Try to create the two most disparate JC Denton's you can imagine. Then notice how closely they actually approximate each other. The deviations just weren't that huge.
4. Dark Engine is indeed kaput, and Unreal probably shouldn't be dragged out again. If they are indeed making a DX2, I would beg ISA to at least consider the Glacier engine from Hitman. It needs some tweaking, but the skeletal animation and character movement are beautiful. And it seems to handle outdoor/indoor and day/night environments equally well.
5. The AI detection system needs to be more consistent. There were times when I was on a soft surface, moving slowly in the vicinity of some NSFs, and after one footfall, it was "WE GOT COPS!" Other times, I could taff my silly head off and run right up to them before they'd even flinch.
6. Everything else I have to say has been said previously, and better. (Better consequences, illogical responses to Bundy-esque killing sprees, Castle Clinton, etc.)
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"Finishing the hat..."
cabellero on 16/4/2001 at 21:06
Clearer instrucions on how to get the Sword arm aug, like clues or somthing?
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Do not follow where the path may lead, go instead where there is
no path and leave a trail...-Anon
Zaphod on 16/4/2001 at 21:17
They did include instructions for the Sword Arm!
There's a sunken boat near where you meet Harvey Whathisname in the first mission. If you jump into the harbor, you can see it (it's got a bunch of items in the hold). The instructions for obtaining the Sword Arm are on the underside of the hull of that sunken boat.
If you jump in the harbor with a metal crate in your hands, you'll sink right to the bottom of the harbor. From there you can get to the underside of the hull and write down the instructions.
NOTE: Do that whole sequence very fast, though, and have your pen ready. The instructions will disappear after you've been in the water a certain length of time. (I think it's 30 seconds).
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"Finishing the hat..."
[This message has been edited by Zaphod (edited April 17, 2001).]
Janchor on 18/4/2001 at 00:11
Just one thing that really f**** me - I plant a LAM on a wall, then hide in shadows on the other side of street, then comes this guy I want to blow up, then the LAM sets off, but he made it through and now he runs towards me blasting away...
HOW THE HELL DOES HE KNOW WHERE I'M HIDING???
This hurt-me-and-I-will-tell-you-where-you-are-hiding AI bug kills the game.
I understand that when I shoot 'em with guns, they can figure my position by the sound of gunfire, but when I use silencer, darts, throwing knife? Dammit.
lunatic96 on 18/4/2001 at 02:02
I would change some of the bad guys talking. It gets annoying to here about "the briefing" the 10th time you shoot someone from an air duct.
I would also make you lose all your ammo when you get captured by MJ12 cause it doesn't make a lot of sense to lose all your guns, but keep your ammo.
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Who doesn't like Gen!'s Haikus?
henke on 18/4/2001 at 11:25
Guns Akiimbo!
Realy how hard can it be to implent that? Thay already have the gun model. All they have to do is put another one in the other side of the screen and double the reloading time. Other than that I agree with everything that has been stated above. And maybe just for fun, a "Third-person arcade shoot-em up" mode. Just remove most of the AI, have enemies blow up when shoot and third person pov.
