smijos on 29/5/2007 at 04:05
I would like to finish TDS with 0 times caught, 0 kills, 0 blackjacks, 0 damage dealt. I have been able to get 100% of the loot on every level without any interaction, yet I always wind up with a bunch of random times caught and a few other annoying stats.
So my first question is: does anybody know the definition of being caught? If it's being seen, the only time I'm ever seen in the entire game is jumping out the Cradle window, which I just recently realized (duh) can be avoided by tossing a flashbomb in there or shooting off a noisemaker. I think you get like 5 or 6 times caught otherwise. I think you get a time caught stat if a suspicious townsperson sees you on the street after an enforcer or shaman or whatever has killed somebody, EVEN THOUGH it wasn't really you!
I also recently discovered how to get around 2 other problems I had that ruined my stats - in the cradle, that puppet in the morgue (that almost gave me a heart-attack) won't be lying in front of the gold teeth if you steal it in the past, and in the pagan sanctuary there's apparently a dead body you can use for the "blood" instead of racking up a kill. (any other "impossible to ghost" places?)
Lastly, I of course get stuck with the opening blackjack in the tutorial as well as a time caught there...bummer.
DJ Riff on 29/5/2007 at 06:51
AFAIK, any of 'AI vs. AI' battle can ruin your stat. Sometimes a fighting AI can suddenly forget about his enemy and rush to you even you're in a complete shadow flattened to the wall. Sometimes when AI kills another AI, it is written as your 'kills'. The only way is to creep as far as possible from AI's battles or gasbomb or flashbomb them when they start to fight. Hmm, Is gasbombing counted as 'blackjacking'?
In Pagan Sanctuary there's a shaman-woman that falls from the roof sometimes ruining your 'kills' and sometimes 'bodies found' stats. Too bad that you cant even see her before it happens, just hear.
T-Smith on 29/5/2007 at 15:26
Due to some strange AI (they watch someone kill their comrade, then kill the one who did. Then 2 minutes later forget and "find" both bodies), the tutorial, fights in in streets, and AI's tendency to kill themselves on fireplaces, etc, I think it's pretty much impossible to really ghost Deadly Shadows like you could the first two games.
Beleg Cúthalion on 29/5/2007 at 22:24
There is a ghost mode in Minimalist Project, as you maybe know. I had trouble with those fighting creatures in the citadel; there were always bodies discovered which I had not killed and it took me one or two hours to find out which corpses I had to hide before anyone would see them. :erg: But throwing someone off the stairs with oil flasks counts as blackjacking, too.
smijos on 30/5/2007 at 05:05
I did manage to fix one stat prob on the tutorial by hacking the default.ini and setting all the stuff to 0 sensitivity, but that doesn't help with the blackjack. Gas bombing doesn't count as a blackjack, so if you could spawn yourself a gas bomb on the tutorial you could bypass that too. I don't really care about bodies discovered because that is DEFINITELY impossible to avoid with all the AI gang wars. But I would say TDS is designed extremely well for ghosting the missions - in fact, each mission seems to have a really good "loop" if you pay attention to where the guards are positioned, keep your objectives in mind and in order. You can collect all the loot and never retrace your steps.
Beleg Cúthalion on 30/5/2007 at 19:51
I had problems inside the clocktower when you must step through doors with a guard always looking in your direction. For me it's no ghosting anymore when I have to use noise arrows or something like that...or gas bombs, which is allowed in MP.
smijos on 1/6/2007 at 12:48
yeah that part in the clocktower is really annoying where the guard by the big pipe is just staring into the doorway. There's no way past him without a flashbomb.
Also in Moira there's a guard staring down a treasure chest in the area where the hidden room is. Totally impossible.
Meisterdieb on 1/6/2007 at 18:26
IIRC completing objectives doesn't count against your ghost mode.
So, blackjacking that guard in the tutorial would be perfectly alright.
Another thing that is not possible is returning picked keys. Although I cannot remember if they count towards picked pockets or can be ignored.
And there are probably other occasions where you either can use the script/Ai to your advantage - breaking common sense but not getting a bust (like AI nudging in Thief 1 and 2) or things work don't work out because of a bug (like the missing platform in Mages Tower). Or how the AI in TDS will notice their stolen purse exactly 4 seconds after you picked it :confused:
(Just annoys me)
The way I play it, as long as I know I didn't kill that corpse or am responsible for that ruckus I don't care about the stats; they are to buggy for that.
I know I have ghosted most - if not all- missions. And I won't let a buggy game ruin that.
smijos on 2/6/2007 at 01:29
I agree, Meisterdieb - and I often chock stats up to bugs.
But man it drives me nuts to ever see a "times caught: 1" post-mission - makes me question whether I really ghosted it. Conversely, I much enjoy gloating in victory while looking over perfect stats from a mission - it's just so satisfying.
Dussander on 7/6/2007 at 11:05
Quote Posted by smijos
Also in Moira there's a guard staring down a treasure chest in the area where the hidden room is. Totally impossible.
That one's not impossible - if you leave the door open every now and again the person inside the room will look
towards the passing guard. He will look out long enough for you to start picking the lock, and after two or three times you would have enough time to fully pick the lock - and you can nab the contents whilst he stands staring.
The clocktower guy - I don't believe is passable. There is also a guard in the family castle who walks up the stairs in Lady Elizabeth's tower, he faces away from you - but there is no way to get to the top without knocking him out.
With regards to the city, I find Stonemarket Proper to be impossible to pass without racking up the bodies and catch stats. I normally go the long route - via the Docks-South Quarter gate.
