TTLG main page... - by Goldmoon Dawn
Sg3 on 22/2/2011 at 17:07
Quote Posted by Kolya
First of all,
Ken Levine did not make System Shock. I've read that several times now, even in an article. But he was hired at LGS in 1995, one year after SS1's release. He was a fan of System Shock who later got the chance to make System Shock 2.
Sorry, I meant to say
System Shock 2. I've never played
System Shock (by the time I'd heard of it, it was too old to run on my computer), so I have no idea how difficult it was. I was speaking of
System Shock 2. Apologies. It was
S.S.2 which Mr. Levine said that they made too difficult. And I earnestly disagree with him. The difficulty was pretty exactly what I was and am looking for.
That's all a bit beside the point, actually; the point I meant to make was, if I loved the effects of the older design philosophies on things such as difficulty level and music style, what does that mean when the new design philosophies suggest that the old ones were no good? I acknowledge the market economics; I'm not defining "good" as "sells well." If that were the case, that'd make
W.o.W. the best game ever. Or maybe
The Sims ...
Kolya on 22/2/2011 at 17:56
Hello Mr. Pot. Depression won't get us anywhere. As fett pointed out this site could collect A LOT of new members quite soon. And new members really are the only thing that can break this spell of cyclical cynical self-referential discussions that I think we're all a bit tired of.
Now there are not just the aforementioned games coming up, but even the old games will gain previously impossible levels of quality, as the work on the dark engine source code progresses. And this website could easily be on top of it all.
Because no matter how many soul-sucking pseudo-mystery sites and pseudo-communities held together purely by marketing speculations the game companies may create, people will always want a place that's independent and where they can speak openly (with all the shit that entails). And just by the credibility this site derives from having been here since the stone age, TTLG is destined to be that place.
Unless we spit destiny in the face and prefer to wallow in self-pity and self-neglect. We could be welcoming new users and preparing this site the best we can for the next generation instead. And like half a year ago, this still requires to fix the main page, fix the forums, shrink the number of forums and otherwise just don't shit on newcomers and new games reflexively. Because we'd be shitting ourselves.
It's fine to tell newbies, what was great about the old games. They gladly join in on a club of wise and friendly elders giving them some pointers. I've seen that happen a lot.
However it's not cool to keep comparing "their" new games and consoles to "our" old games and PCs, where the winner will always be our games and machines. But not us.
If we can find no new games we like, that's our problem and none to be too proud of, let alone base a community on. Consider that DX3, T4, and BSI are the games the kids grow up with now and will undoubtedly be the subject of their nostalgia soon. That's nothing to be scared of, relax.
Besides we have better things to relay: Namely how to make a game really your own, by getting creative with it and hence honouring the companies who release development tools with our continued support and works of art. Which is something TTLG can proudly claim to have achieved more and better than anyone else. Really, there's so much to be proud of and not much we'd have to do now. In fact TTLG is in such an enviable position that if this site continues its downturn, there's only ourselves to blame. It's always been that way.
EDIT: Maybe that also answers part of the old question what kind of games are interesting to TTLG: More than anything else, that's games you can work with. Because this fan work started this place and kept it alive the whole time.
Goldmoon Dawn on 22/2/2011 at 18:14
My favorite part of the TTLG main page is also the worst kept. A little section entitled: TTLG Classic Websites. Personally, I would love for TTLG to be the place that has the *best* websites out there for these games as well as adding a few choice titles that are missing, but I understand that these titles are old, and now inconsequential.
Also, while the forums sure are neat and stuff, please keep in mind that TTLG is *not* a group of forums first and foremost, like so many here seem to think...
Mission Statement: To honor the legacy of Looking Glass Studios, by providing professional, dedicated fansites promoting the Action/Adventure/RPGs created by its members, past and present. These fansites are designed to provide news and media to the fans, display fan-made fiction and artwork. TTLG is also the home of a massive community forum, where the fans can interact with each other, as well as the developers.
Anyways, I have been waiting a long long time to see some front page TTLG action, and here it finally is. :ebil:
Renault on 22/2/2011 at 19:24
The reports of TTLG's death are greatly exaggerated. I still don't get when an old school TTLGer bitches about how this place is in decline, and the sky is falling. This place still does decent traffic, and there are always new games coming out that jive with the TTLG mindset. Look at the "most users ever online" stat on the main forum page - 377 on May 10th, 2010, less than a year ago.
I think the reality is the old school Commchatters are disappearing one by one, and so that's somehow viewed as this place going to hell (it might be an improvement). But I will say, what this place does need instead of a facelift is just a little moderation. You're not going to get many new members to stick around when the day they walk in, they're ripped a new one by the likes of ZB, Eva, Koki, or dethtoll. No one's saying we need martial law, but a little common sense and decency to new visitors wouldn't be a bad thing.
Or not. Really, if the admins are content to just stay as we are and not draw any new blood, that's not the worst thing in the world either. It's worked fine for over 10 years now.
june gloom on 22/2/2011 at 19:32
In my defense, I only rip newcomers brand new orifices when they deserve it.
The problem is, they nearly always deserve it.
Goldmoon Dawn on 22/2/2011 at 22:48
Well, that certainly deserves a round of applause! :ebil:
Kolya on 22/2/2011 at 23:12
When I stranded on these shores I said stupid things and made daft jokes that everyone must have been quite tired of already (wordplay on shock anyone?). Still no one ripped into me. People just seemed to have better things to do. And that made me want to be part of it.
Scots Taffer on 22/2/2011 at 23:35
Quote Posted by Brethren
I still don't get when an old school TTLGer bitches about how this place is in decline, and the sky is falling. This place still does decent traffic, and there are always new games coming out that jive with the TTLG mindset. Look at the "most users ever online" stat on the main forum page - 377 on May 10th, 2010, less than a year ago.
I think the reality is the old school Commchatters are disappearing one by one, and so that's somehow viewed as this place going to hell (it might be an improvement).
No one has said the place is going to hell, just that parts of it are dying off and while you may view death as some kind of improvement because of anticipated regrowth - there are no signs of regrowth to take solace in. Perhaps it will come at some stage, but this half-hearted attempt at a new front page won't drive it, of that I am certain.
And just because there's traffic doesn't mean there's activity, a braindead person still has a pulse. There's no greater challenge against the idea that this place is just as thriving as when you look at the number of fresh posts per day in many of the forums. And even if they are "fresh posts" doesn't mean the ideas are fresh, I can't tell you the numbers of times my face has fallen upon opening a thread to see that it's just one of the usual suspects wasting more bandwidth with their lack of conversational talent.
I'm not going to jump straight to easy answer, but the tone of your whole post reads like a typical Commchat/ThiefGen-style-divide-reinforcement. The one thing I will say unreservedly is that I applaud the commitment and ongoing enthusiasm of the Thief and Shock forumgoers. The passion they continue to show on an ongoing basis is exactly the sort of thing I think has been lost from the other areas of the forums, and if anyone says it was never there never knew the place in its heyday.
However while it is true that Commchatters are dwindling in number, it is not purely that I'm bemoaning - the effect is seen through all of the major subforums, Gen Gaming particularly. I could sit here and rhyme off names all day long of regulars who were very active in other subforums other than CommChat (and more broadly in other areas of TTLG also), but I won't because I don't take to nostalgia well.
The pronouncement of "the end is nigh" doesn't make it any more significant or truer than usual for anyone else at TTLG, but it is for me personally. I've prided myself on a level of commitment to TTLG that went beyond the ordinary, I poured a lot of my energy and who I am into my posts here over the years. I have always been a person who's looked at TTLG as one of those places that wouldn't ever really change, despite the ebbs and the flows, the comings and goings, it has always been a place for peppy banter, frank discussion, reasonable exchanges of ideas, and thoroughly enlightening points of view from some intelligent people. And cock jokes, of course.
I've treated this place like my first home on the internet and it has been, only now it's like when I return to Scotland after years in Australia - nothing looks like it used to and I don't know if I can call it home anymore.
Anyway, anyone who knows me well enough will know that I am exactly the last person to make this kind of post - I'm realising today that like the day a long time ago when I realised I was different from Thief and Shockgenners because I
loved a game they still
love, my love for TTLG as a whole is moving into past tense. It's a sad moment for me and anyone who feels like that's something to make light of or cynically brush off misunderstands just how much I have loved this place.
Goldmoon Dawn on 23/2/2011 at 00:11
For me, it all stems from a love and passion for Ultima, Wizardry, and Might and Magic. The big three classic rpgs. As everyone should know by now, LGS was born in the midst of these classics, and even created two classics of their own (Ultima Underworlds). TTLG was based and founded on the LGS classics, System Shock, and then Thief. As much as I hail The Dark Project to be a classic in the annals of gaming history, which it is, the previous Ultimas, Wiz's, and MM's were also true classics, and in many ways "better". Nevertheless, LGS stayed true to their roots of classic game design up until their closing. Anything that resembles or takes its cues from these classic games is what I crave, and to see TTLG attempting to continue to support these ideals is welcome. The only time you will ever see me complain, is the day when TTLG puts Stunt Car Driver or somesuch on the front page. In the meantime, I think that what Dan is trying to do here is the first step to a potentially promising future TTLG. Since all of the classic rpg companies died between 1999 and 2003, it is wise to assemble the best that we can from the wreckage and move forward somehow. The only thing that bothers me about the previous post is the comment about this being a half hearted attempt at a new front page to drive future enthusiasm. I think Dan is right. The only thing I would do differently/add to the mix, is redoing some of the old websites. Make them a more substantial reference to those bold souls that decide to do the right thing and go back to the classics they may have missed. It would seem in my experience here, that painfully few have played many of these classics.
