Un-answered questions

Assassin X on 25/12/2007 at 02:44

I'm am not "deep" when it comes to some things since I have memory problems. So its hard for me to remember the past Thief games. But its always been like hes (to sound cliche) "The one". hes here to keep things balanced as people are saying.

The end, at least to me looked like his time was up and the new "One" was going to be the little girl. She was the new "balance keeper". But with powers. I was hoping to see a new series based on her when she is older and doing missions. But then I guess it would become to cliche having a game where you wield stuff in a miedevil setting and have powers. To much like everything else. Thats what made Thief diffrent. No powers. You are just a Thief with normal weapons (for the most part) in a not so normal world.

Herr_Garrett on 5/11/2008 at 21:38

Well... I am unaware if anyone has ever considered that maybe the Keepers were no Keepers at all. Meaning that they have forsaken the old Keeper ways totally... And they convinced themselves that the "balance" must be kept at all costs, overruling even common sense. In DP and MA they did act on the prophecies of the Ancient Keepers, but in DS in their arrogance and self-indulgence they even believed that the prophecies are wrong and that they are right. They had to be destroyed not only because of their corruption, but because there was nothing good in them left to be corrupted... Even the Keepers who helped Garrett did not do it because of their sense of duty or of right/wrong, but because they thought that Orland has become "unbalanced". Unbalanced? The guy was out of his mind, for gods' sakes! They weren't equanimous anymore, they became unconcerned, careless. When the scribe tells to Keeper Draco about the Abysmal Gale, how easily does the Elder dismiss the notion...
Garrett has become the One True Keeper because he was the only one (apart from Artemus maybe? I'm uncertain of that) who still "kept up" the old ways, the ways of the Ancient Keepers. He used his wits, daring, phlegm (in a good way), knowledge... I agree that part of the Keepers' fault lay in becoming too dependent on the Glyphs and that was because they became a bunch of stuck-up arrogant bastards who thought that keeping the minutes of the Keeper Council was more important than the fate of the City. I remember (or believe to remember) hearing a Keeper complaining about "monsters in the City" or something like that. Little coward. And take Garrett's case: when he escaped, they sent nothing less than an army after him. Because they were simply uncapable of dealing with him in any other way. Yet Garrett triumphed over them because he had everything they lacked... And again, when after Gamall's revealed, and Garrett goes back to the Compund, Orland says: "You could do it, Garrett! A thief could do it!" Why couldn't a Keeper do it? Because they couldn't do anything without Glyphs anymore. They were Keepers no longer.

And that what happened to the "Old" Keepers in the end? They did disperse, yes. But with Garrett and the girl maybe a "New" Keeper Order will arise, following the teachings of the Ancient Keepers. A group of sneaky, calculating, sardoincal, sly and guilefulbastards who nevertheless do the right thing... And maybe will creat some safeguards against the future corruption, again.

jtr7 on 5/11/2008 at 23:45

I keep wondering where the game states, implies, or infers that there are any Glyphs or glyph magic for use by anyone, except possibly Garrett, which is a stretch. If he uses it, he won't be happy about it. He'll find himself at the whim of an outside power, or more than one...again. That's been a critical part of his path all along.

The prophecies and writings by which the Keepers made decisions about how to keep the balance, told them who were the weights to shift in the pans, and how things would play out, were written in Glyphs (which NO LONGER EXIST), translated by an appointed Translator (SHE'S DEAD, JIM!), and interpreted--first, by an Interpreter (a new one may need to be appointed), and then again, by the Council, unless Garrett inexplicably no longer gives a damn about putting Keepers and Glyphs behind him and has been given powers of insight so the Keepers and Prophecies are no longer a necessary source of, uh, key information.

The Prophecies no longer spoke of Garrett past Day 8. The Glyphs themselves spoke nothing of the future beyond the immediate consequences of activating the Final Glyph. The Keepers were left blind even before the order was destroyed, and I'm not talking about the books Gamall hid from them. The Unwritten Times, the Third Dark Age, is described with finality. I believe generations would have to pass for the City to need the glyphs again, need Keepers again. I don't believe the key symbol on Garrett's hand must be a Glyph, just as the keyhole symbols were never shown to be Glyphs.

There are no more Glyphs, unless time travel comes into play, or Glyph magic can be brought in from elsewhere, or Garrett finds the one book not written with glyphs, or person who can be the "Gatekeeper" to Garrett's "Key Master." Hey! Maybe Garrett wasn't the only former Keeper to leave the Order! Maybe there's another like him that Garrett can shake hands with and unleash Glyph magic back into the world! Maybe Caduca saved someone else's life, and he/she keeps to his/herself! Maybe this person has been around a long time, sustained by the heretical Invertamus Glyph, and now is waiting for the "One True Keeper"--the one guy who can keep the Keeper stuff truly secret and truly non-influential. Or maybe the Hand Mages know something?

Hmmm... Were the Prophecies ever found to be...wrong? Vague doesn't count.:p Weren't we fairly told that what the Glyphs say turns out to be more true than not, and that the only inaccuracies come from misinterpretation? Is there a prophecy that has a nice loophole about the future of the Glyphs?

Have we ever seen Garrett create a glyph to use? Has he ever shown any propensity towards casting spells at all? Or even writing? We know he can read fine, but has it ever been hinted that he likes to write? All the books for training new Keepers, all the copying the Scribes have to do from those books, are all gone. Has Garrett been given a gift of prophecy concerning balance and corruption--THE MOST IMPORTANT TOOL of the KEEPERS, which is their whole motivation?!? Has he ever used a Glyph that wasn't created or written by someone else already? Has he been given the ability to reach into the whole index of Glyphs to cast them? Can Garrett say "Glyph Aranides, dispense my will!" without it sounding cheesy? He's more Han Solo than Luke Skywalker, or has his mind been taken over? Will he start carrying a wand, or will he conjure up Glyph arrows, or empower his blackjack to brain helmeted guards at least as easily as his blackjack was empowered to shatter statues? The Keeper Compound is now exposed for all to see. The only doors and corridors that remain hidden are those behind solid wall requiring glyphs to access; however, doors and corridors hidden or locked by glyphs are now accessible. I would not be content if the City and the Thieves' Guild were all over the Compound, looting ("Is that gold?"), exploring, investigating, seeking answers, and so on. Maybe Garrett can cloud their minds, now?

Jarvis on 6/11/2008 at 21:00

The very quality that made Garrett the "one true keeper" was his indifference to the City. Not once did he save the City for the sake of the City. Being a realist, he didn't want the Trickster to return, or to have Karras end all life, or to have Gamall achieve invincibility and rampage around the City.

He stopped all of these things because it was necessary for his own self-preservation. As they say, there is no such thing as an altruistic act. This is doubly so in Garrett.

So that said, if Garrett has changed at all to suddenly by more caring about the City, doesn't that negate the very quality that gave him balance before? In order for him to continue to act in balance, he must maintain indifference.

* * *

I utterly reject the idea that Garrett is now special in some way because he is the "one true keeper". What hogwash. Way to turn a thoughtful and philosophical line of thinking into adolescent comic book crap. It's his ideals (or lack there of) that made him different from the Keepers, not spooky mysterious glyphs.

Garrett is and always was just a guy. Now all the Keepers are the same, just people. From this new, and level, playing field Garrett and the Keepers have to decide what to do.

I have no doubt that a lot of the Keepers will try and pick up where they left off. They would have to undergo a lot of change... but let's all be honets with ourselves. They'll probably come to resemble what we all THOUGHT they would be like BEFORE Deadly Shadows came out. Not a one of us imagined them in robes with wands. Scholars, sure. Mages? Bah!

Garrett, I would like to think, would again turn his back on the Keepers and do things his way. If he intends to actively maintain the City's balance, then he'll fail to maintain his own balance just like everyone else. If he goes back to the way he was, which admittedly would be difficult to do, then it's anyone's guess as to what role he would play on the future. Realistically speaking, little to none.

As for the young girl. I'm sure she'll make a very fine thief someday.

jtr7 on 6/11/2008 at 22:06

:thumb:

Dante on 13/11/2008 at 02:32

Holy necros Batman!

I'm with Jarvis here. I love the idea of a guy who saves the world and then just goes back to doing what he does! Garrett never was a knight in shining armor; we all know that. As for the heroic journey, the maturation, that people are trying to attach to him -- it doesn't exist. He's thirty or forty years old. He's been thieving since he was a child. It wouldn't be write, after three games and a decade of gaming, to turn him into something he never was. As Jarvis says, it was his pragmatism, not his gallantry, that caused him to (sneakily) beat the crap out of the Trickster, Karras, and Gamall. He was smart enough to realize that he wasn't going to survive a Dark Age and daring enough to do something about it.

As for the Keepers' evolution into wand-wielding sorcerers, maybe it was just Ion Storm being dumb, if it actually was intended to symbolize their corruption ... I sort of like that idea.

I hope Garrett lures the girl into a false sense of security, robs her naked, and kicks her into the river.

Petike the Taffer on 18/11/2008 at 20:56

Quote Posted by Dante

Garrett hastily escaping to the rooftops from the City Watch.
Townspeople gazing at the scene.

City Watch : "You won't get away this time !!!"

A boy from the bystanding crowd asks his father :

"Why is he running, dad ?"

Father : "Because we have to chase him."

Boy : "But he didn't do anything wrong..." (except thieving :D )

Father :
"Because he's the hero the City deserves... but not the one it needs right now... So... they have to hunt him... Because he can take it...
Because - he's not a hero.
He's a silent guardian...
...a watchful protector...
...THE DARK TAFFER..."

:laff: :laff: :laff: :) :thumb:

Dante on 20/11/2008 at 03:25

How dare you compare Christian Bale with His Excellency Mister Garrett? You, sir, should be ashamed—ashamed!—of yourself.

That was an awesome movie ... Why can't they do it for Thief? :grr:

Funny, actually, he really is a silent guardian, watchful protector, and antihero.

Petike the Taffer on 20/11/2008 at 17:26

Quote Posted by Dante

Well, that's my point ! :) For me, Garrett IS the Batman of medieval-based fantasy. :thumb:

jtr7 on 25/4/2009 at 07:42

A slightly bigger nose, but sounds just like her.:cheeky: